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395 points pseudolus | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.322s | source
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dtnewman ◴[] No.43633873[source]
> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used.

I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem.

Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous issue. For many students, it's literally "let me paste the assignment into ChatGPT and see what it spits out, change a few words and submit that".

I think the issue is that it's so tempting to lean on AI. I remember long nights struggling to implement complex data structures in CS classes. I'd work on something for an hour before I'd have an epiphany and figure out what was wrong. But that struggling was ultimately necessary to really learn the concepts. With AI, I can simply copy/paste my code and say "hey, what's wrong with this code?" and it'll often spot it (nevermind the fact that I can just ask ChatGPT "create a b-tree in C" and it'll do it). That's amazing in a sense, but also hurts the learning process.

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yapyap ◴[] No.43634006[source]
> I think the issue is that it's so tempting to lean on AI. I remember long nights struggling to implement complex data structures in CS classes. I'd work on something for an hour before I'd have an epiphany and figure out what was wrong. But that struggling was ultimately necessary to really learn the concepts. With AI, I can simply copy/paste my code and say "hey, what's wrong with this code?" and it'll often spot it (nevermind the fact that I can just ask ChatGPT "create a b-tree in C" and it'll do it). That's amazing in a sense, but also hurts the learning process.

In the end the willingness to struggle will set apart the truly great Software Engineer from the AI-crutched. Now of course this will most of the time not be rewarded, when a company looks at two people and sees “passable” code from both but one is way more “productive” with it (the AI-crutched engineer) they’ll inititally appreciate this one more.

But in the long run they won’t be able to explain the choices made when creating the software, we will see the retraction from this type of coding when the first few companies’ security falls apart like a house of cards due to AI reliance.

It’s basically the “instant gratification vs delayed gratification” argument but wrapped in the software dev box.

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1. JohnMakin ◴[] No.43634077[source]
I don't wholly disagree with this post, but I'd like to add a caveat, observing my own workflow with these tools.

I guess I'd qualify to you as someone "AI crutched" but I mostly use it for research and bouncing ideas (or code complete, which I've mentioned before - this is a great use of the tool and I wouldn't consider it a crutch, personally).

For instance, "parse this massive log output, and highlight anything interesting you see or any areas that may be a problem, and give me your theories."

Lots of times its wrong. Sometimes its right. Sometimes, its response gives me an idea that leads to another direction. It's essentially how I was using google + stack overflow ten years ago - see your list of answers, use your intuition, knowledge, and expertise to find the one most applicable to you, continue.

This "crutch" is essentially the same one I've always used, just in different form. I find it pretty good at doing code review for myself before I submit something more formal, to catch any embarrassing or glaringly obvious bugs or incorrect test cases. I would be wary of the dev that refused to use tools out of some principled stand like this, just as I'd be wary of a dev that overly relied on them. There is a balance.

Now, if all you know are these tools and the workflow you described, yea, that's probably detrimental to growth.