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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

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666 points jcartw | 5 comments | 08 Apr 25 10:59 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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SwiftyBug ◴[08 Apr 25 11:48 UTC] No.43620583[source]▶
I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years.

Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use.

Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be amazed by how fast money arrives in my Brazilian account when I make a withdrawal directly from my EUR wallet on Wise. I receive a push notification from my Brazilian bank before Wise finishes running the animation of confirmation of withdrawal. It's like magic.

And it's so widespread that nowadays I don't even question whether someone accepts Pix. When I get in a taxi, no matter how old the driver is, it's certain that they take (and prefer) Pix.

I've even had homeless people ask me for Pix instead of change on multiple occasions.

Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance.

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WinstonSmith84 ◴[08 Apr 25 17:50 UTC] No.43624538[source]▶
> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance.

Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1.

How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system controlled by just a single entity / country.

What we may however end up with, are dozens of systems like Pix, one for each country, union, etc. Still cryptocurrencies as-is remain relevant (see point 1)

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toomuchtodo ◴[08 Apr 25 22:04 UTC] No.43626927[source]▶
80 countries have instant/real time payment systems today [1], and the Bank for International Settlements is working on cross border interoperability [2].

Cryptocurrencies will likely never go away, and will remain in use for certain use cases from a cross border value transfer perspective, similar to gold; either the token moves or the ownership is updated. More interesting is offering digital wallets for a single or basket of currencies to anyone you can remotely identity proof in the world (similar to nsave [3]).

[1] https://www.volt.io/real-time-payments-world-map/

[2] https://www.bis.org/about/bisih/topics/fmis/nexus.htm

[3] https://www.nsave.com/ | https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/nsave

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danielmarkbruce ◴[08 Apr 25 23:02 UTC] No.43627319[source]▶
On top of that, the BIS isnt even needed for global real time payments. A company like Wise (formerly transferwise) or any similar entity can just hold accounts in each country and if the local settlement is real time they can also do real time global settlement by just updating their db and sending the money real time in the receiving location.
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irjustin ◴[08 Apr 25 23:47 UTC] No.43627572[source]▶
This is how they all work including western union. It's not a secret but it's not really talked about either.

No one pays FX fees on each transfer. Single large rebalancing transfers allows them to actually move money at optimal times and rates with bulk discounts. Then they can currency hedge and get larger spreads on the actual fx rate.

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1. xeromal ◴[09 Apr 25 02:12 UTC] No.43628306[source]▶
Kind of a tangent but I have some friends that are kurdish and that's how they transfer money to and fro the US and skirting whatever limits/regulations exist. They just give money to a money family in kurdistan and the money family here in the US hands it to them out of a restaurant or whatever. I've been fascinated with it since I knew it existed. It's all the same stuff with various coats of lipstick.
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2. fruit2020 ◴[09 Apr 25 05:50 UTC] No.43629259[source]▶
Don’t they need to pay for the plane ticket?
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3. ljf ◴[09 Apr 25 06:04 UTC] No.43629320[source]▶
No they mean that a family member in the US gives them some of their own money, but records it to a family ledger. At some other point funds or value will be transferred, but it isn't transferred within the family for every payment.

Similar to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala

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4. xeromal ◴[11 Apr 25 01:27 UTC] No.43649556{3}[source]▶
This is exactly what it is. I kind of dig it and I'm glad I know the name now
5. xeromal ◴[11 Apr 25 01:28 UTC] No.43649568[source]▶
Someone posted a link in response to you, but no money actually crosses borders.

I think the best way to explain it is an example.

My contact needs to get money to his family across the world. I happen to have a cousin that I love and trust who lives there and runs a gas station. My contact gives me 10k USD + a fee and then I call my cousin and tell him to give 10k to the contact's family member if they give the right password. At the end of the year, I meet up with my cousin and I bring him some gold or other goods depending on what our deficits are to each other.