Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

Sweden has had a similar system for several years before PIX in Brazil. It is also integrated with the digital ID system (BankID). The main difference is that the Swedish system is ran through a private organization managed by all the major banks (and the central bank) in conjunction. So the central bank doesn't have direct access to the transaction data technically.

While the Brazilian system is only interacted directly through your bank application, the Swedish application is a separate application tied to your bank account in the backend. Given the... quality of bank apps this is a huge plus. The Swedish Swish app is MUCH easier to use because it only does one thing. My Brazilian mother does not know how to send PIX because her bank app is very confusing and the PIX option is just one of many.

The BankID system of Sweden though is even more impressive than money transactions, pretty much everything government related (including healthcare, taxes, etc) and most private institutions (bank apps, Swish, digital contract signatures) is done through the unified BankID login.

People raised concerns over privacy, but the main problem really is that since these systems cut out the middle man (Visa/Mastercard) and have no fees you also have no fraud protection which is something to keep in mind when using them. Once you send the money it is gone, the banks will not give it back to you even if you got scammed. It creates a whole sort of scam industry in both countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swish_(payment)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BankID

This is the difference in Brazil. Because it's ran by the Central Bank, there are some fraud protections. For example, if you receive money by mistake, you have the option to return a transfer to the original sender. And if you don't do that almost immediately, the sender can actually sue you and get the bank to revert the transaction (once proven you've deliberately chosen to not return the money).

There are also other security features tailored for the crime aspect of Brazil (since some people argue Pix increased the number of flash robberies); you can limit how much money you can transfer via Pix during day and night time, and even request a second confirmation before the transfer actually goes through. And if you prove you've been robbed, the bank can easily revert the transaction and you can get your money back.

> the main problem really is [...] no fraud protection

It's a problem for the victims, but I don't think it's why there's a scam epidemic in Sweden - scammers don't care if you get reimbursed or not. I believe the root issue is the ease and speed of transactions - it's easy to get fooled in a moment of confusion, and before you realize what happened, the money is out of reach of the authorities - as cash, crypto or in foreign accounts.

I work in Swiss banking. We also have such a system for payments. Its very popular and used by most people. I keep saying they should use it as SSO, if you can authenticate payments you damn well can authenticate login requests. It makes no sense to go to an online shop, log-in with your shop account or google, and then when you pay, authenticate the payment with TWINT. And banks could even use it to login to their e-banking. Currently literally every bank has its own 'Access' App, that is almost the same but slightly different. And to my irritatingly they don't consistently encode TWINT information the same way into the normal banking transactions.

Our developer phones have like 40 apps on them to log into different test system, its madding.

In our system the pay system is also 'half' branded so you have to download 'TWINT-<bank>' not just 'TWINT'. Making it unnecessarily confusing and its literally the same app (from a user perspective).

It seems this Bank Id is an even earlier system adopted for modern SSO use-case.

My suggestion would be to create an account for her with Nubank or Mercadopago, which are easier to use, faster to login than any banking apps, and have PIX more readily available after login, and then keep some money on the new account just for the kind of purchases she'd use pix for. I do that for myself just for ease of use.

In Spain we have Bizum, which is also a independent payment system run by all the local banks.

How recent is Swish adoption? Some Swedes I knew back in 2013-2018 seemed to mostly use Visa/MC at home.

Yes BankID is the real MVP of digital systems, I heard some talks about the EU making one valid for the whole block. Hopefully it will fix all the countries.Everything is done through BankID in swedish-only institutions.

Put house on sale? bankid. Book a doctor appointment? bankid. Login to bank? Bankid. Open bank account? bankid. Sign contracts? bankid.

Heck I moved my pension (like a lot of money) to a different institution by just using BankID. Didn't have to call/email anyone, the process took 5 minutes (with about a month to actually process the transaction).

It is still not the same as credit cards, credit card fraud protection doesn't require any sort of legal process.

Also these kind of limits can also be put on credit (and debit) cards.

>have no fees

Both Swish and BankID have fees. After all, they're run by for-profit corporations.

Those apps also reduce competition in the banking sector since they're controlled by a few banks which generally have very high fees on their other services.

What's even worse, since BankID is private, there's no individual right to get it, and I've personally experienced banks abusing their oligopoly (buy this extra service or you won't get BankID from us).

The Swedish situation is a nightmare which nobody should try to emulate. Fortunately, the Swedish government has finally announced plans to introduce a public government eID, although 20 years too late.

> credit card fraud protection doesn't require any sort of legal process

Credit card fraud protection uses a private-only legal process. What is the worst kind of legal process.

Interestingly enough Brazil also has a system to use Bank login to authenticate on government systems.

Revolut is simplifying this, also in Switzerland. You checkout with the "Pay with Revolut" option. It's instant, magic and safe. You don't need to copy card details, just authorise the push notification.

I have also used it on airline websites, Aer Lingus and Wizz Air.

>Yes BankID is the real MVP of digital systems, I heard some talks about the EU making one valid for the whole block.

Sweden is actually in a pickle here. The dominant but private BankID doesn't satisfy all security requirements for the EU's digital identity wallet. It just isn't profitable.

The government is now working on a public government eID with a higher security standard, but many Swedes might still be left out since adoption will take some time.

This is one of many reasons why eIDs shouldn't be run by for-profits corporations, and sadly nothing would likely have happened without pressure from the EU.

i mean, the bank can be a fraud protection, inter for example ask for a monthly payment for security, not sure how good tho

Literally everyone uses Swish in my experience. Even idiotic criminals.

We "had" to get swish (and a debit card..) for our 12 yo daughter because cash is just not very usable here. Although the CC is still used more than swish, but for transfers between persons, or smaller companies swish is very common.

I have never heard a single person complaining about BankID really. The only downside is the huge risks, especially for older people. We basically took control of an elderly family members bankid to avoid them being scammed.

This is something they really need to work on, just add an optional extra layer or cool-down, to slow everything down. You dont necessarily HAVE to have your transactions be immediate, waiting a few days would have been fine in our cases.

I live in Switzerland - TWINT has other differences as well. To start, its settlement is not immediate as Pix's. As you point out, it is also not standardised.

> What's even worse, since BankID is private, there's no individual right to get it

Nothing stops people from making it a right.

Brazilians have that right. Everyone can get a free checking account with transfers and Pix at every bank. They still try to sell us "service packages" but the idea of paying a fractional reserve bank any amount of money is just stupid if not abusive. They should be paying us for the privilege of having our money deposited into their reserves, not the other way around.

> I have never heard a single person complaining about BankID really.

You haven't met any foreign people then, BankID is a common complaint among international students. I've moved to Sweden recently for university and getting BankID was/is a nightmare. It requires you go get a bank account (which I don't want nor need, and has yearly fees), and since the ID card we get from Skatteverket does not have NFC, we need to go to the bank to setup it on a new phone every time (at least on SEB). And getting a bank account is not a simple process either, it took me like 3 months doing paperwork (and had to mail it physically, they don't do in-person appoitments for this), and I'm an EU citizen. Obviously for Swish you'd need a Swedish bank account, but my point is that you should be able to get a digital eID from the government without any other requirements (like I got my physical ID card from Skatteverket).