←back to thread

361 points Tomte | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
Show context
Scaevolus ◴[] No.43584261[source]
Ultimately, RAW formats aren't that complex, and camera firmware is mostly developed in countries that don't have strong open source software traditions.

Look at the decoders for each format that darktable supports here: https://github.com/darktable-org/rawspeed/tree/develop/src/l...

It's some binary parsing, reading metadata, maybe doing some decompression-- a thousand lines of C++ on average for each format. These aren't complex codecs like HEVC and only reach JPEG complexity by embedding them as thumbnails!

Cameras absolutely could emit DNG instead, but that would require more development friction: coordination (with Adobe), potentially a language barrier, and potentially making it harder to do experimental features.

Photographers rarely care, so it doesn't appreciably impact sales. Raw processing software packages have generally good support available soon after new cameras are released.

replies(12): >>43607682 #>>43608468 #>>43609020 #>>43609118 #>>43609169 #>>43609799 #>>43612739 #>>43612940 #>>43615274 #>>43615505 #>>43617505 #>>43624875 #
rickdeckard ◴[] No.43609118[source]
> Cameras absolutely could emit DNG instead, but that would require more development friction: coordination (with Adobe), [..]

Technically speaking, implementing DNG would be another development activity on top of a RAW export, because RAW also has a purpose in development and tuning of the camera and its firmware.

It is supposed to be raw data from the sensor with some additional metrics streamed in, just sufficiently standardized to be used in the camera-vendors' toolchain for development.

It just "happens" to be also available to select for the end-user after product-launch. Supporting DNG would mean adding an extra feature and then hiding the RAW-option again.

I can imagine it's hard to make this a priority in a project plan, since most of the objectives are already achieved by saving in RAW

replies(6): >>43609335 #>>43609959 #>>43609969 #>>43612792 #>>43612984 #>>43619858 #
Narretz ◴[] No.43609335[source]
> It just "happens" to be also available to select for the end-user after product-launch

RAW (any format) is an essential requirement for many photographers. You just can't get the same results out of a jpeg.

replies(1): >>43611596 #
rickdeckard ◴[] No.43611596[source]
None of this is disputed (or relevant) in this conversation
replies(1): >>43613086 #
mort96 ◴[] No.43613086[source]
I disagree. Bufferoverflow frames raw formats as something that's really only there for R&D purposes, and it's more or less just an afterthought that it's available to photographers. In reality, Narretz points out, getting access to the raw sensor data is a key feature to many photographers; it's an essential aspect of the product from a user perspective.
replies(1): >>43613373 #
rickdeckard ◴[] No.43613373{3}[source]
Since you disagree: where in this thread did anyone state the opposite of what you just wrote, who said that RAW is NOT a key feature to many photographers?
replies(1): >>43615698 #
1. mort96 ◴[] No.43615698{4}[source]
Here:

> It is supposed to be raw data from the sensor with some additional metrics streamed in, just sufficiently standardized to be used in the camera-vendors' toolchain for development. It just "happens" to be also available to select for the end-user after product-launch.

replies(1): >>43618461 #
2. rickdeckard ◴[] No.43618461[source]
Nothing here states that a RAW format is NOT a key feature to many photographers. This is a straw-man argument.
replies(1): >>43619724 #
3. mort96 ◴[] No.43619724[source]
It says that it "just happens" to be available to customers and the main reason it exists is for R&D. That's what I disagree with.
replies(1): >>43620290 #
4. rickdeckard ◴[] No.43620290{3}[source]
The whole post shapes the context, even the whole sentence helps already: It just "happens" to be also available to select for the end-user after product-launch. Supporting DNG would mean adding an extra feature and then hiding the RAW-option again.

--> Even if DNG-support would be adopted as a feature for the end-user, the proprietary RAW would still need to be maintained because it has a core-purpose during development of the product. The utilization AFTER that is the product-feature

None of this negates the value of RAW for photographers, this is completely beside the topic

replies(1): >>43620385 #
5. mort96 ◴[] No.43620385{4}[source]
That's not how I interpret it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
replies(1): >>43620681 #
6. rickdeckard ◴[] No.43620681{5}[source]
Hence I, the person who wrote it (!), keeps clarifying the intended interpretation by (re)iterating that noone disputes the value of RAW for photographers.

It is up to you now to ingest new information and adjust your interpretation, a process I'm afraid I can't help any further with.

Good luck ¯\_(ツ)_/¯