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Pitfalls of Safe Rust

(corrode.dev)
168 points pjmlp | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.315s | source
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nerdile ◴[] No.43603402[source]
Title is slightly misleading but the content is good. It's the "Safe Rust" in the title that's weird to me. These apply to Rust altogether, you don't avoid them by writing unsafe Rust code. They also aren't unique to Rust.

A less baity title might be "Rust pitfalls: Runtime correctness beyond memory safety."

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burakemir ◴[] No.43603739[source]
It is consistent with the way the Rust community uses "safe": as "passes static checks and thus protects from many runtime errors."

This regularly drives C++ programmers mad: the statement "C++ is all unsafe" is taken as some kind of hyperbole, attack or dogma, while the intent may well be to factually point out the lack of statically checked guarantees.

It is subtle but not inconsistent that strong static checks ("safe Rust") may still leave the possibility of runtime errors. So there is a legitimate, useful broader notion of "safety" where Rust's static checking is not enough. That's a bit hard to express in a title - "correctness" is not bad, but maybe a bit too strong.

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whytevuhuni ◴[] No.43603865[source]
No, the Rust community almost universally understands "safe" as referring to memory safety, as per Rust's documentation, and especially the unsafe book, aka Rustonomicon [1]. In that regard, Safe Rust is safe, Unsafe Rust is unsafe, and C++ is also unsafe. I don't think anyone is saying "C++ is all unsafe."

You might be talking about "correct", and that's true, Rust generally favors correctness more than most other languages (e.g. Rust being obstinate about turning a byte array into a file path, because not all file paths are made of byte arrays, or e.g. the myriad string types to denote their semantics).

[1] https://doc.rust-lang.org/nomicon/meet-safe-and-unsafe.html

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pjmlp ◴[] No.43604067[source]
Mostly, there is a sub culture that promotes to taint everything as unsafe that could be used incorrectly, instead of memory safety related operations.
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dymk ◴[] No.43604325[source]
That subculture is called “people who haven’t read the docs”, and I don’t see why anyone would give a whole lot of weight to their opinion on what technical terms mean
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pkhuong ◴[] No.43605171[source]
Someone tell that to the standard library. No memory safety involved in non-zero numbers https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/num/struct.NonZero.html#tymeth...
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whytevuhuni ◴[] No.43605264[source]
There is, since the zero is used as a niche value optimisation for enums, so that Option<NonZero<u32>> occupies the same amount of memory as u32.

But this can be used with other enums too, and in those cases, having a zero NonZero would essentially transmute the enum into an unexpected variant, which may cause an invariant to break, thus potentially causing memory unsafety in whatever required that invariant.

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zozbot234 ◴[] No.43605313[source]
> which may cause an invariant to break, thus potentially causing memory unsafety in whatever required that invariant

By that standard anything and everything might be tainted as "unsafe", which is precisely GP's point. Whether the unsafety should be blamed on the outside code that's allowed to create a 0-valued NonZero<…> or on the code that requires this purported invariant in the first place is ultimately a matter of judgment, that people may freely disagree about.

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1. steveklabnik ◴[] No.43612667[source]
> Whether the unsafety should be blamed on the outside code that's allowed to create a 0-valued NonZero<…> or on the code that requires this purported invariant in the first place is ultimately a matter of judgment, that people may freely disagree about.

It's not, though. NonZero<T> has an invariant that a zero value is undefined behavior. Therefore, any API which allows for the ability to create one must be unsafe. This is a very straightforward case.