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160 points areoform | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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hnburnsy ◴[] No.43520980[source]
For more background here is what Rubio said on Rumeysa Ozturk...

“We revoked her visa. It’s an F-1 visa, I believe. We revoked it, and here’s why—I’ve said it everywhere, and I’ll say it again.

Let me be abundantly clear: If you apply for a student visa to come to the United States and you say you’re coming not just to study, but to participate in movements that vandalize universities, harass students, take over buildings, and cause chaos—we’re not giving you that visa.

If you lie, get the visa, and then engage in that kind of behavior once you’re here, we’re going to revoke it. And once your visa is revoked, you’re no longer legally in the United States. Like every country, we have the right to remove you. It’s that simple.

It’s crazy—stupid, even—for any country to let people in who say, ‘I’m going to your universities to riot, take over libraries, and harass people.’ I don’t care what movement you’re with. Why would any country allow that?

We gave you a visa to study and earn a degree—not to become a social activist tearing up our campuses. If you use your visa to do that, we’ll take it away. And I encourage every country to do the same.

Every country has the right to decide who enters as a visitor. If you invite me to your house for dinner and I start putting mud on your couch and spray-painting your kitchen, you’re going to kick me out. We’ll do the same if you come to the U.S. and cause a ruckus.

We don’t want that here. Go do it in your own country—but not in ours.”

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jauntywundrkind ◴[] No.43521541[source]
Rubio is a sad sack of garbage, using the same mud slinging always on the attack belittling everyone everywhere vileness that is this fucked up administration's only way of coping with reality & the rest of the world.

You're going to take the word of a lunatic who signed off on not just deporting random people, but shipping them into slavery at an El Salvador super prison? A dude who has an autism tattoo in support of his brother? A dude who has his soccer team's logo as his tattoo?

Rubio & this administration are deeply unserious, acting as capriciously as possible. There's been no evidence, and incredible refusal to even allow the courts their legal chance to review grievances filed for Alien Enemies Act, as is required.

Having the head of state going around bullying people who wrote to the college Op-Eds is insane. This is so far below their status. Rubio is pissing his panties because someone wrote an op-ed accurately and simply asking the college to please recognize & act on a lawful & decent vote by the Tufts Community Union Senate is not a horrible act. This isn't putting mud on the couch or spray painting a kitchen, this is very basic & civil free speech, and Rubio is pissing on the bill of rights that Americans for 250 years have been proud of. Because he's a monster & a coward, in bed with other monsters and cowards.

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ranger_danger ◴[] No.43524022[source]
Be that as it may, I don't think that providing additional context from either side should be perceived as "taking the word of a lunatic" just because it happens to feed your confirmation bias.

And on that note, it seems that you agree at least in theory that there has not been any actual evidence presented, yet you seemingly won't accept it because you still assume that writing an op-ed is the only thing they have done, and you've already made up your mind on this matter.

Why don't we wait until the evidence comes out before jumping to conclusions?

I think it's entirely possible the student could have actually done something wrong, and either Rubio is simply not revealing it, or he actually doesn't know the details and was only told smaller bits from someone else. OR, maybe the student did not do anything besides the op-ed and the government is blowing it way out of proportion... but either seems just as plausible to me.

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AlecSchueler ◴[] No.43537806[source]
> Why don't we wait until the evidence comes out before jumping to conclusions?

Because people are being taken from the streets. The onus is on the people arresting her to show that they are in the right to do this. It's the United States and generally you expect people to be treated as if they're innocent until there's proof of their guilt.

If they don't know why they're do this then they shouldn't be doing it.

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ranger_danger ◴[] No.43537860[source]
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I also don't think that not giving evidence always means they are arresting the wrong person every time.

It's not that I trust them, I don't, and I disagree with their tactics too, which I think are being (slowly) dealt with politically and judicially, but again I don't think it inherently means everyone they arrest is completely innocent.

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1. AlecSchueler ◴[] No.43554181[source]
It turns out there is at least one innocent person down in El Salvador who they claim they "can't" get back.

I agree with you that not providing evidence at the point of arrest isn't inherently indicative of ill intent but this administration refers to people wrongly arrested as "collateral," pays money for people to go to prison outside of American jurisdiction to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes etc etc. Is there no line where your trust level would shift?

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2. ranger_danger ◴[] No.43557844[source]
Oh I absolutely don't trust them, never have. I even mentioned that in the last message. I was just arguing on principle because people love to latch on to sensationalized stories that lack context and evidence... and usually it comes out later that it wasn't as big of a sky-is-falling event as people thought.

It's entirely possible that isn't the case here though, I don't have enough information to say. If you're referring to Abrego Garcia, it later came out that the "administrative error" was due to an informant claiming he was a gang member, but I don't think there was ever any evidence of that, so I think it's still an unknown and an ongoing case.

Certainly I think everyone should be entitled to due process though, illegal immigrant or not. And I can't tell if many of this admin's actions are willful deception or gross incompetence, or both.

Your comment that they pay money for people to go to prison explicitly "to make sure there's no fallout if they make mistakes" sure seems unfounded and sensationalized to me though. It might look like that but I have not seen any proof that it's intentional in the way you say it.