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The Egg (2009)

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227 points jxmorris12 | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.43534338[source]
Hah, it's literally Schopenhauer's hell: Humans as both the tormenting demons and as those doing the suffering. In this case, one human -- which further frames suffering as an inescapable, masochistic cycle. "You were victimizing yourself" says the demiurge.

That everything is predetermined and that time is nonlinear is also something that should trouble every contemplative person.

It's basically a devil's brew of nihilism and determinism that frames existence as a solitary, predetermined journey toward an abstract goal (maturation into godhood?!) that renders individual lives expendable and morally ambiguous. And it plays out over a trillion or so years. Horrifying.

It's especially funny as the author, with very little awareness of what he was writing, tried to strike positive "we are all one" notes... And ended up with something that would give Ligotti nightmares.

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bccdee ◴[] No.43534735[source]
> And it plays out over a trillion or so years. Horrifying.

Horrifying to whom? The character isn't suffering. They aren't aware of the passage of those trillions of years. There's nothing any more horrifying about this than about bog-standard reincarnation.

And so what if you're the only one? That's not really true in a functional sense. Every human you interact with is indeed a truly conscious individual with a discrete personality and life. You only become integrated as a single organism when the egg "hatches" and you join the broader society of adults.

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A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.43534791[source]
> There's nothing any more horrifying about this than about bog-standard reincarnation.

Reincarnation tends to assume at least some degree of continuity and free will.

This thing assumes that you're eventually going to be, e.g., The Elephant Man, or that poor Japanese guy who got cooked by a megadose of radiation and the doctors wouldn't let him die. That, if there's a torture that you've heard of, or any cautionary tale you've seen reported, you are going to experience it or have already -- and without learning anything at all.

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bccdee ◴[] No.43535015{3}[source]
The guy in the story has as much free will as anyone does. Just because everything's stitched together with time travel, doesn't mean the individual instances of the character aren't making authentic choices in each moment. Free will doesn't mean our choices are non-deterministic and detached from our circumstances and history; I don't know why that would even be desirable. Compatibilism is the only coherent stance on free will.

> and without learning anything at all

Well, you learn something later, when the egg hatches. But blank-slate reincarnation also promises that you'll completely forget the trauma of being the elephant man, at least for the duration of the egg process. Surely the real burden would be remembering all those billions of lives with only your paltry human mind to bear it.

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1. A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.43537064{4}[source]
> The guy in the story has as much free will as anyone does. Just because everything's stitched together with time travel, doesn't mean the individual instances of the character aren't making authentic choices in each moment. Free will doesn't mean our choices are non-deterministic and detached from our circumstances and history

Imagine two men. I will make this extreme for sake of example: One of them is Saint Francis of Assisi. The other is Oskar Dirlewanger, infamous SS war criminal.

Are they, as the story suggests, the same man? Is it the case that every choice they made in life can be attributed solely to circumstances and history -- and that both men, under the same circumstances, would make the same choices? (Being, after all, the same man, with the same soul.) Thus doesn't the story presume that there is no such thing as personality, and that the "soul" is a free rider -- all actions in life coming down to sheer biological and circumstantial determinism?

This total erasure of individuality -- with the same person doomed to exhibit all moral and ethical extremes -- is something I believe every philosopher would call a repugnant conclusion.

You can believe in compatibilism and still believe that there are actions that are inconsistent with your own nature. That, as the story suggests, you must become both torturer and tortured is horrifying.

> blank-slate reincarnation

At least it never implies, in any religious tradition, that you are all of your contemporaries. People would rightly recoil from such a teaching.

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2. rmwaite ◴[] No.43537638[source]
> every philosopher would call a repugnant conclusion

Just because a conclusion is repugnant doesn't mean it is beyond consideration.

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3. weard_beard ◴[] No.43538228[source]
The horrifying part, for me at least, might be only 1 non-predetermined per universe. The rest of "you" is "you" putting on the Truman show.

https://rickandmorty.fandom.com/wiki/Central_Finite_Curve