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What to Do

(paulgraham.com)
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voidhorse ◴[] No.43515252[source]
pg's writing is so lazy. At best he engages with thinkers in a superficial way, further, he never expands his horizons beyond the typical cadre of classics, he says nothing of actual intellectual substance and worth, and if anything he legitimizes an uncritical stance toward the world (a sort of pseudo-intellectual neopositivism). I still think a poverty of exposure and experience in the history of philosophy and literature on the part of his audience is the only reason he gets any sort of readership.
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booleandilemma ◴[] No.43515568[source]
Can you recommend a writer you like? Have you written anything?
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voidhorse ◴[] No.43521374[source]
I can recommend several. If pg's essays have some amount of appeal to you, you are probably potentially interested in philosophy, here are just a few people who have authored works of far greater eloquence, depth, and significance than anything paul graham has ever written:

Wittgenstein, Rousseau, Marcuse, Horkheimer, Adorno, Foucault, Ryle, Montaigne, Maggie Nelson, Didion, Bertrand Russel, Jean Paul Sartre, Roland Barthes, Niklas Luhmann, Norbert Wiener, Hienz von Forester, Hans Georg Gadamer, Juergen Habermas, Rebeca Solnit...

And these are just the few people that came to mind off the cuff. If I bothered to look I could probably give you more.

These tech luminaries act as though no philosophy or significant social analysis or cultural criticism has happened in the west since Plato and Cicero, but it's simply...entirely untrue. There's a wealth of deep, enriching philosophical heritage to explore, and I think these bozos don't engage with it because they are either too lazy (much easier to read translations of the classics) too disingenuous (much easier to base your sophistry on material that is so old as to not be contested) , or too self righteous (they already possess the one truth birthed directly by the divine cells of their brains because they like the lisp programming language and worked at yahoo, so why bother to interact with the thought of others in a serious way?) to bother. Not to mention, they don't dare engage with the highly complex dedicated academic studies of the classics anyway. I doubt pg has done little more than read a modern translation of Cicero. Probably not even Leob, probably Penguin Random House. But hey, those ignorant of the gold vein will happily lop up pewter.

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BoingBoomTschak ◴[] No.43526342[source]
You realize that navel-gazing metaphysics and philosophy aren't the same thing, right? Your list contains such a quantity of intellectuals with low substance to verbiage ratio that I hope it was made in jest.

Regardless of potential faults in pg's writings, which are indeed more collected thoughts than essays. And I don't even agree with this one, creating should be left to those capable of doing it well (which means at least some degree of perfectionism, developed aesthetic sense and inspiration) and those rarely need external encouragement. The others should cultivate their virtue and maintain an iron will within a steel body, the world (both individuals and as a whole) would certainly benefit much more from this.

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voidhorse ◴[] No.43527597[source]
The list I gave is sufficiently broad (incorporating essayist, analytic philosophers, and continental philosophers) that I'm not sure how you could claim it consists of nothing but navel gazers and metaphysicians unless you didn't looks at the list carefully and made assumptions or unless you mean to write off basically all of philosophy (in fact, the basic program of more than one of the authors I mentioned was to demolish traditional metaphysics as bunk philosophy).

Bertrand Russel (along with Whitehead) and Wittgenstein are both crucial figures in the resurgence of logical research and the development of modern mathematics. Norbert Wiener, beyond his more philosophical reflections on the integration of machines into society, made significant advances in signal processing. Rousseau is one of the founding figures of modern political thought and the concept of right.

Create all the drivel you want, I don't have a problem with that. What I do think, however, is that when you are in a position of influence like pg, you have some amount of responsibility to publish works that are well researched and scientific to the extent that they can be. Scientific in the philosophical context often means work that engages in some meaningful way with tradition, or that at the very least lays out logical argument.

I would accept the stance that perhaps pg is just publishing personal musing here, and it is the fault of his audience to take them as seriously as they do, but if that's the case I feel even more strongly that reasonable and responsible people who have studied these traditions should argue against these claims and urge others to desire and seek more.

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BoingBoomTschak ◴[] No.43528769[source]
My fault for not detailing what I meant: pg's article is about the antiquity kind of philosophy answering actually important questions almost anybody alive asks himself like "how should I/one live my/his life?". This puts it in a completely different world than 20th century philosophy which is more often about metaphysics, deconstruction, post-modernism, critical theory, etc... (disclaimer: I found "Fashionable Nonsense" entertaining and have a lot of disdain for most of this).

About Russel and Wittgenstein, I obviously wasn't saying anything about their contributions to hard science. Rousseau is indeed one of the more down-to-earth thinkers listed (though his noble savage remains one of the best jokes I've ever read about).

I'll be honest with you, I think pg's writings are hard to criticize because I think they're more often "right" than not, at heart. Sure, you can criticize the lazy style that clearly doesn't aspire to be scholarly, or the broad generalizations and hand-waving (in fact, every article gets it), but arguing against the core theses isn't as easy. Though I think this one isn't one of his best days, heh.

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1. voidhorse ◴[] No.43530099[source]
Thanks for the clarification. You might like the work of Pierre Hadot, as it's very much in line with the idea that philosophy should mostly concern itself with questions of how individuals ought to live (the "philosophy as therapeutic practice") I'd be curious to hear which philosophers you admire.

I'd agree that not all 20th cen Philosophy is worth reading (there's a reason I didn't bring up Derrida or Lacan, for instance) but I find "meaningless word salad" accusations levied against the critical theory of the Frankfurt school and Habermas, and Foucault's work much harder to justify (I haven't read the sokal book in a while, but I don't think these thinkers were really a focus of the critique—it was more so the thought of derrida et al that followed on their heels). The Frankfurt school is sometimes a bit melodramatic and rhetorical, but their thought collectively actually does contain substantive argumentation and elaborates significant concepts that were important in establishing a critical reorientation in the new political and technological systems of the modern world, and, I think does what philosophy should: namely get us to question our own preconceptions, our social environments, and what kind of existence we should strive to achieve for self and other (in fact, Marcuse is one of the few philosophers to argue firmly for the positive beneficiary potential of technology—many of the more renowned philosophers on technology are usually far more pessimistic about its prospects, even stemming back to Socrates as rendered by Plato). The same goes for Foucault—his arguments and overall technique and program are worthy of respect, even if some of the people that adopt his ideas are overzealous and far less nuanced than he was (the debate between him and chomsky is great for instance, because they both have radically different approaches and perspectives but both get at some essential truths)

I'd say that the solidity of many of pg's theses stems from the fact that they aren't actually developed—to use this one as an example, it basically amounts to: "what should one do? make things that yield net good". That's great and all, but for this to have any real potency or meaning we'd have to elaborate what good actually means here, and it is in that analysis where actual philosophizing begins and where an empty platitude can become an actual thought worth sharing. Unfortunately, I don't think, as others seem to think, that pg is some deep thinker that is portraying deep insight "simply"—he is essentially just not a deep thinker at all. If you read any of his works with a critical eye you will note that he completely buys into the prevailing social and economic organization of the world, and that he is, in this sense, a fish who is quite happy to leave the water it swims in unexamined. He does not even really try to justify this acceptance—it is simply taken as a prior that this mode of organization must be acceptable (I assume because it made him rich and continues to make him money) and he feels no need to even justify it with any seriousness, acumen, or depth of research—at best he offers tautologies that rely on undefined terms (e.g. like we have here with "the good") for their "universal wisdom and truth". His writing is so narrowly focused on individualism that it fails to become critical. We are not isolated atoms operating in hermetically sealed tanks—any serious examination of how to live requires questioning whether or not the prevailing social conditions require modification. The only level of engagement pg has in this arena that I've seen is essentially to just try to convince people to found startups—what sparkling insight! It is this lack of critical perspective that makes much of his work worthless, in my view, yet he acts and presents his writing as though his philosophical learning is on the level of the ancients. He desperately wants to present and style himself as a learned man of letters without having actually seriously engaged with the literary tradition in any real sense (or at least he presents basically no evidence of this). Not to mention the downright harmful ideological crap he spews:

> The other reason I wouldn't want to define any thresholds is that we don't need them. The kind of people who make good new things don't need rules to keep them honest.

It's hard to read this as anything but a thinly veiled argument that people in the particular industry that makes him money should be subject to no oversight by default. He takes a jab at "the Victorians" for centering their lives around monotheism but then asks readers to take it on faith that the individuals that he might personally adjudge to be the makers of good things are de facto in the right and trustworthy. It's just laughably uncritical, uninteresting, and unscientific writing that basically always boils down to a cherry-picking argument from authority, N=1 style reasoning, egotism, and the myth of isolated "genius".