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How to Use Em Dashes (–), En Dashes (–), and Hyphens (-)

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650 points Stratoscope | 25 comments | 27 Mar 25 20:19 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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mmooss ◴[27 Mar 25 23:41 UTC] No.43499567[source]▶
Here's an easy, if not always precise way to remember:

* Hyphens connect things, such as compound words: double-decker, cut-and-dried, 212-555-5555.

* EN dashes make a range between things: Boston–San Francisco flight, 10–20 years: both connect not only the endpoints, but define that all the space between is included. (Compare the last usage with the phone number example under Hyphens.)

* EM dashes break things, such as sentences or thoughts: 'What the—!'; A paragraph should express one idea—but rules are made to be broken.

Unicode has the original ASCII hyphen-minus (U+002d), as well as a dedicated hyphen (U+2010), other functional hyphens such as soft and non-breaking hyphens, and a dedicated minus sign (U+2212), and some variations of minus such as subscript, superscript, etc.

There's also the figure dash "‒" (U+2012), essentally a hyphen-minus that's the same width as numbers and used aesthetically for typsetting, afaik. And don't overlook two-em-dashes "⸺" and three-em-dashes "⸻" and horizontal bars "―", the latter used like quotation marks!

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lxgr ◴[28 Mar 25 01:12 UTC] No.43500276[source]▶
> EM dashes break things, such as sentences or thoughts

Some style guides recommend "space, en dash, space" for this, and I prefer that myself – mainly because some software doesn't treat em dashes correctly as word separators for double click selection purposes.

For example, I'm pretty sure that at least some Kindle models would highlight both the word before and after the em dash when selecting one of them, which makes using the dictionary very annoying.

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1. krick ◴[28 Mar 25 11:10 UTC] No.43503947[source]▶
It's actually only your post that made me realize people don't normally put spaces around em dash. In French, Russian and a bunch of other languages proper typesetting is to use em dash as a standard dash character, and you always put spaces around them. So I did it in English as well, for many years now.

(I also now looked up and found out that in Spanish, apparently, you are supposed to put space only on one side of the dash, when used as a direct speech separator.)

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2. rmunn ◴[28 Mar 25 13:16 UTC] No.43505058[source]▶
I also put spaces around em dashes. It looks wrong—subtly wrong—to me to have the words glued together around the dash. It looks right — completely right — to me to have the dash standing on its own, as if it was a word in its own right.
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3. lashloch ◴[28 Mar 25 13:43 UTC] No.43505363[source]▶
Funny—I'm the exact opposite. The extra spaces distract my eyes. To each their own! :)
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4. rmunn ◴[28 Mar 25 13:49 UTC] No.43505414{3}[source]▶
To each their own: fully agreed, even though our tastes differ. I will mention one advantage of the spaces-around-dashes method: word wrap with default settings will break on the spaces around the dashes so that the entire word one, dash, word two combo doesn't end up pulled onto the next line as a whole unit. Whereas the advantage of the no-spaces method that you prefer is that word wrap will pull the entire word one, dash, word two combo onto the next line as a whole unit.

Why yes, I did list the opposite behavior as an advantage of each. Because that, too, is up to individual preference. :-)

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5. rmunn ◴[28 Mar 25 13:51 UTC] No.43505425{3}[source]▶
P.S. I also prefer smileys with noses, :-), as opposed to the noseless smileys, :), that most people these days seem to prefer. :-)
6. tines ◴[28 Mar 25 14:02 UTC] No.43505552[source]▶
The reason not to do this is observable in your post on my phone. The spaces cause the word wrapping algorithm to leave a dangling dash at the end of the line which looks ugly. Omitting spaces prevents the word break.
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7. ◴[28 Mar 25 14:13 UTC] No.43505675{3}[source]▶
8. hansvm ◴[28 Mar 25 14:14 UTC] No.43505687{3}[source]▶
Funny, I'd rather have the break at the start or end of the emdash-implied break than just before or after it, not having to mentally handle some single dangling word divorced from its compatriots.
9. rmunn ◴[28 Mar 25 14:29 UTC] No.43505892{3}[source]▶
I mentioned that as an advantage in one of my other comments. An advantage both ways, because it depends on preference. I have the same preference as hansvm: I would rather see the dangling dash at the end of the line, so I prefer putting spaces around the dashes. Having the entire word-dash-word structure move to the next line feels ugly to me. As with most things, de gustibus non est disputandum. (And also, quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur).
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10. da_chicken ◴[28 Mar 25 14:30 UTC] No.43505903{3}[source]▶
Ironically, on my phone the only line that ends with an em dash has no spaces in it.

If you want to not have a line break, you shouldn't rely on arbitrary behavior. You should use non-breaking characters like non-breaking spaces and word joiners.

11. snozolli ◴[28 Mar 25 14:40 UTC] No.43506008[source]▶
people don't normally put spaces around em dash

For what it's worth, I was in the last class in my high school to learn typing on IBM Selectric typewriters. We were taught to type two spaces, two hyphens, then two spaces. Incidentally, we were taught two spaces after periods and colons. To this day, I find it hard to read text that doesn't have proper spacing after periods. (HTML and WYSIWYG word processors handle formatting, but e.g. fixed-font text editors don't)

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12. lxgr ◴[28 Mar 25 15:45 UTC] No.43506839{4}[source]▶
That depends on the layout engine, I believe. Just tried it in Firefox (on macOS; not sure if it uses Core Text or something custom there), and it does sometimes break around the em dash in "foo—bar" style, not just "foo – bar" style.

I've definitely noticed the behavior you describe on some layout engines, too, and it's another reason why I personally prefer "foo – bar" style.

13. chipotle_coyote ◴[28 Mar 25 15:59 UTC] No.43507004{4}[source]▶
It's the dangling dash at the beginning of the line that gets me. I see a lot of word break algorithms, including the one WebKit (and I suspect Blink) uses, which are happy to break "foo—bar" on either side of the em dash.
14. mmooss ◴[28 Mar 25 18:19 UTC] No.43508474[source]▶
What is a "standard dash character"? There is no such thing in English; only hyphen, EN dash, EM dash (and some odds and ends).
15. dragonwriter ◴[28 Mar 25 18:22 UTC] No.43508518[source]▶
Its funny that people think that conventions for typewritten text built around the limitations of typewriters define what is “proper” in environments where typewriters and their limitations are not involved.
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16. mmooss ◴[28 Mar 25 18:24 UTC] No.43508537{3}[source]▶
> The reason not to do this is observable in your post on my phone. The spaces cause the word wrapping algorithm to leave a dangling dash at the end of the line which looks ugly. Omitting spaces prevents the word break.

That's an interesting practicality but I don't think it's the cause of the rule: The rule probably long predates automated line breaking. Also, I think automatic line breaking will break compound words at the hyphen; it doesn't require spaces (which is also obvious from a software development point of view: the logic is relatively simple either way):

  Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing double-
  decker lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur ...
17. kevin_thibedeau ◴[28 Mar 25 18:37 UTC] No.43508646[source]▶
I was taught that and abandoned it as a pointless anachronism. How often are you reading long form text in a monospace font?
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18. ovalanche ◴[28 Mar 25 18:42 UTC] No.43508695{3}[source]▶
Yes, this always grinds my gears too. There is already a slightly larger space after periods in contemporary typefaces.

The old typewriter typefaces were monospaced, ie. every character was the same width, but this is no longer the case. Virtually all typefaces today are proportionally spaced, not monospaced. So it’s redundant to leave extra room after periods.

19. laptopdev ◴[28 Mar 25 19:33 UTC] No.43509146[source]▶
Grammar nasi but isn't it "It looks right — completely right, to me — to have the dash standing on its own"...
20. mmooss ◴[28 Mar 25 20:00 UTC] No.43509350{3}[source]▶
It's not your own. You write mostly for others to read.
21. lxgr ◴[28 Mar 25 20:16 UTC] No.43509463{3}[source]▶
Preventing the word break doesn't seem very desirable, especially if it causes a large gap.
22. snozolli ◴[28 Mar 25 23:26 UTC] No.43510989{3}[source]▶
What does this have to do with what I wrote? I said nothing of the sort. In fact, I explicitly pointed out that HTML and WYSIWYG word processors address it automatically.
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23. snozolli ◴[28 Mar 25 23:27 UTC] No.43510993{3}[source]▶
Often enough, thanks.
24. hilbert42 ◴[29 Mar 25 06:24 UTC] No.43513256[source]▶
I've wondered about this for similar reasons. I usually omit the spaces but as I said in an earlier post I'll sometimes include them when I think the typography calls for it or when I want to add extra emphasis.

I've come to the conclusion it boils down to which style manual one follows. I've taken a careful look at numbers of high-end books which no doubt have been carefully typeset and I've found EM dashes with and without spaces.

It seems there is no definitive rule but I might be wrong.

25. ovalanche ◴[11 Apr 25 13:43 UTC] No.43653703{4}[source]▶
That’s fair!

My comment applies to a few pedantics I know personally, who stubbornly double space after periods when typing in regular situations.