←back to thread

650 points Stratoscope | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
Show context
A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.43497927[source]
AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two hyphens, like: --

Absolutely proper and correct use of em dashes, en dashes, and hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon pre-2022.

replies(45): >>43497951 #>>43497959 #>>43497991 #>>43497995 #>>43498049 #>>43498054 #>>43498058 #>>43498059 #>>43498089 #>>43498153 #>>43498177 #>>43498218 #>>43498231 #>>43498389 #>>43498395 #>>43498405 #>>43498437 #>>43498472 #>>43498488 #>>43498490 #>>43498537 #>>43498605 #>>43498634 #>>43498758 #>>43498838 #>>43498867 #>>43499020 #>>43499053 #>>43499108 #>>43499180 #>>43499193 #>>43499275 #>>43499285 #>>43499331 #>>43499336 #>>43500092 #>>43500616 #>>43501429 #>>43501430 #>>43501576 #>>43503609 #>>43505370 #>>43505896 #>>43506418 #>>43506419 #
1. heyjamesknight ◴[] No.43498758[source]
I disagree—LLMs don't use them properly. They always put a space between the words before – and after – the dashed part.
replies(2): >>43498852 #>>43627536 #
2. Freak_NL ◴[] No.43498852[source]
Using spaces is not wrong. Typographically, a hair space or another thinner than usual space is usually used, but in plain text a space is often preferred. Style guides vary of opinion on this, but newspapers often space them. Without a space they end up looking like elongated hyphens joining the words on both sides. That's not their function.
replies(2): >>43499143 #>>43499242 #
3. bluebarbet ◴[] No.43499143[source]
This is US vs British English. You will struggle to find an em dash in any British publication.
replies(1): >>43499254 #
4. dragonwriter ◴[] No.43499242[source]
> Using spaces is not wrong.

Its not wrong for en-dashes (and en-dash set open—with space on either side—is generally an alternative to an em-dash set closed.) And its not wrong on the trailing side of an em-dash used in dialogue to show an abrupt stop mid-sentence if the stop is followed by a new sentence. And there's a few other particular uses, but, generally, setting an em-dash open is wrong.

> but newspapers often space them.

I've never seen a newspaper set em-dashes open, but I have seen them use en-dashes set open instead of using em-dashes at all. Given the space premium in print newspapers, em-dashes set open, which would consume enormous horizontal space, would, other concerns aside, be an odd choice.

5. Freak_NL ◴[] No.43499254{3}[source]
My comment was about spaces specifically. The Guardian and the BBC use en-dashes instead of em-dashes, but both do so with spaces.
6. CRConrad ◴[] No.43627536[source]
LLMs do use dashes "properly"; it could just as well be argued that you don't: The very article at the start of this discussion mentions that, while thy don't use spaces, using spaces is a valid alternative.