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A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

(www.theguardian.com)
196 points RapperWhoMadeIt | 4 comments | 27 Mar 25 13:01 UTC | HN request time: 0.226s | source
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itissid ◴[27 Mar 25 14:55 UTC] No.43494328[source]▶
Its just people. People are the same everywhere, and are fundamentally unpredictable systems. How large groups behave does depends to a certain extent on context: by compared to others and your socio-economic situation. How they publicly expressed their values are entirely different from their behavior. This is to the dread of incumbent governments and pollsters.

If you starve a wealthy man for 2 weeks he will be ready to cannibalize. If you create a metric upon which you place a lot of economic-value, soooner or later it will get gamed and corrupted. If you remove checks and balances humans being unpredictable will turn on each other.

One can choose to ignore this fact, but at the cost of endless grief to oneself and those around.

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bufferoverflow ◴[27 Mar 25 18:01 UTC] No.43496176[source]▶
> People are the same everywhere

That is absolutely not true. People aren't the same even in adjacent neighborhoods sometimes. Some create great environments, some create hells on earth.

Source: I lived in 3 different countries + an isolated island.

But you don't even need my biased opinion on the matter. We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them.

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mr_toad ◴[27 Mar 25 18:59 UTC] No.43496862[source]▶
> We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them.

And you could take single individuals from either culture and drop them in the other culture, and most of them would happily act and think just like the new culture, and swear blind that they’d always thought that way.

It would be an interesting experiment to see how many individuals you could replace one-by-one before the culture changed. Or perhaps, like a Ship of Theseus, you could replace all the people, but have the culture endure.

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1. jajko ◴[27 Mar 25 19:40 UTC] No.43497292[source]▶
Hahaha. Take a look at western Europe. Vast majority of the immigrants from neither Africa or Middle east didn't adopt any of the core values of their host country even after decade+. More often than not, even second generation has very different values. What happens is isolated or connected silos of original values surviving a lot of generations.

Just ask Germans or French or Belgian folks, or go there. The idea was exactly what you write, and it failed miserably with no solution in sight.

Just to explain - we have friends among those communities. We like them a lot, but the difference is there even after couple of generations. Its not talked about much, but if you look for it, it shows up. Nobody will talk about this with strangers of course, thats just polite facade.

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2. jjani ◴[27 Mar 25 20:00 UTC] No.43497520[source]▶
They were arguably never placed in fact never placed in the culture. There are 24 hours in a day. In what culture does one spend most of those hours?

Imagine if those same people would have been adopted as newborns, by a rural family on a farm in Belgium, France or Germany.

This isn't inherent to Europe, nor to any particular background. I live in Korea. Most Western immigrants here spend most of their time not inside the culture. They both work and relax outside of the dominant culture. If they have children here, and raise them similarly, those children will also have different values. But if they put their child in environments where everyone else is from the dominant culture, for >8 hours per day ever since kindergarten, then that's the values they'll take on.

It all does come down to culture. For what it's worth, I'm originally from Europe, and very familiar with the phenomenon you're talking about.

Someone else here rightly mentioned the internet as changing this somewhat, which has some truth in it - it does affect the probability distribution. But by and large, it still holds.

3. lukan ◴[27 Mar 25 21:02 UTC] No.43498133[source]▶
"Vast majority of the immigrants from neither Africa or Middle east didn't adopt any of the core values of their host country even after decade"

Depends. I think in their home countries, Muslim youth does not hang around drunk in the park, that is more of a european thing, erm. cultural value. So they clearly adopted.

Ok, so that was satirical. But they are the ones bothering me. I am not bothered by women wearing a Hijab and I don't see that hurting our values.

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4. inglor_cz ◴[27 Mar 25 21:27 UTC] No.43498391[source]▶
The Hijab is the least problem. The polls among European Muslims that show their attitudes towards secularism and various human rights that we take for granted (such as "abandoning your religion") are the problem. As are the consequences, such as parallel societies and the visible tip of the iceberg = actual terrorists and the whole infrastructure for recruiting them and sending them to jihadist hotspots.