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388 points pseudolus | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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fullshark ◴[] No.43473662[source]
Bachelor Degrees need a complete rethink, it was basically modified finishing school for rich capital owners, needing to make their children of proper class before they could take over their businesses.

It then became a vocational degree for the working class, despite being completely detached from useful skills for a wide swathes of degrees. The only value is that you could talk the talk and become a member of the professional managerial class if you impressed the right hiring committee/individual.

In spite of this, we decided the working class should take out crippling loans to pay for this degree, and be in debt for the rest of their working life.

It's not sustainable, and just forgiving the debt only will make it all more expensive and less aligned with actual results we desire (useful workers).

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jltsiren ◴[] No.43485764[source]
The liberal arts model was intended for the elites, and the idea of education as means of producing useful workers is straight from a totalitarian planned economy. But there is also the Humboldtian model of higher education, which focuses on educating informed citizens who are free to make their own choices. Learning vocational skills is easy enough if you have good education, and it's also necessary to be able to do that outside school, as careers rarely last a lifetime.

American higher education is expensive, because you chose to defund public universities. And because you have an unhealthy obsession with rankings and top universities. Those are the things you need to change more than education itself.

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gruez ◴[] No.43487109[source]
>the idea of education as means of producing useful workers is straight from a totalitarian planned economy

???

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delusional ◴[] No.43488150[source]
It's a worldview that necessitates only teaching what leads to a job. It is anti beauty and anti human.

We are not machines of production. We are human beings, we deserve to learn stuff that doesn't help us produce.

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RevEng ◴[] No.43489280{3}[source]
Why not both?

If I want to learn how to do something, I want to be educated in that. There should be education available for that, but for knowledge workers, there largely isn't; instead, university has been hijacked to fill that role. In the trades there are schools dedicated to learning these topics and they work well at helping people learn to work effectively.

Universities should be a place of higher learning and research - those are really important too. The struggle in universities today is that they are expected to be both and those things aren't really compatible. That's why you get research professors begrudgingly teaching undergraduate courses.

We need an alternative to universities for learning the trades that knowledge workers tend to do.

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1. jltsiren ◴[] No.43489781{4}[source]
Some countries have alternatives. For example, Finland has institutes that call themselves polytechnics, universities of applied sciences, or something similar. ~60% of higher education takes place in them, with the remaining 40% in research universities.

However, when similar fields of study are available in both types of institutes, employers almost universally prefer graduates from research universities.

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2. nradov ◴[] No.43490014[source]
We have the same thing in the USA. Some schools like Cal Poly or Texas A&M have an explicit focus on learning by doing rather than knowledge for it's own sake.