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388 points pseudolus | 4 comments | | HN request time: 1.896s | source
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fullshark ◴[] No.43473662[source]
Bachelor Degrees need a complete rethink, it was basically modified finishing school for rich capital owners, needing to make their children of proper class before they could take over their businesses.

It then became a vocational degree for the working class, despite being completely detached from useful skills for a wide swathes of degrees. The only value is that you could talk the talk and become a member of the professional managerial class if you impressed the right hiring committee/individual.

In spite of this, we decided the working class should take out crippling loans to pay for this degree, and be in debt for the rest of their working life.

It's not sustainable, and just forgiving the debt only will make it all more expensive and less aligned with actual results we desire (useful workers).

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jltsiren ◴[] No.43485764[source]
The liberal arts model was intended for the elites, and the idea of education as means of producing useful workers is straight from a totalitarian planned economy. But there is also the Humboldtian model of higher education, which focuses on educating informed citizens who are free to make their own choices. Learning vocational skills is easy enough if you have good education, and it's also necessary to be able to do that outside school, as careers rarely last a lifetime.

American higher education is expensive, because you chose to defund public universities. And because you have an unhealthy obsession with rankings and top universities. Those are the things you need to change more than education itself.

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gruez ◴[] No.43487109[source]
>the idea of education as means of producing useful workers is straight from a totalitarian planned economy

???

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delusional ◴[] No.43488150[source]
It's a worldview that necessitates only teaching what leads to a job. It is anti beauty and anti human.

We are not machines of production. We are human beings, we deserve to learn stuff that doesn't help us produce.

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pembrook ◴[] No.43489299[source]
You can certainly go overboard on the “teaching only practical skills” thing, but id argue the pendulum has swung way too far in the other direction.

The point of teaching useful skills is so people can be helpful to other people. While coded as right wing this is fundamentally pro-social. Finding a useful and needed place for yourself in society tends to result in more stable families, communities and mental health.

Spending decades indulging your own ego tends to do the opposite.

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Avicebron ◴[] No.43489441[source]
> "teaching useful skills is so people can be helpful to other people. While coded as right wing"

I'm apparently living deep underneath bedrock and/or have spent too much time worrying about [EDITED] "weird math"

When and where/how did the "helpful to other people == coded as right wing" happen? And does that mean people are finding fault in the first half because of the second?

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1. pembrook ◴[] No.43489732[source]
The current zeitgeist according to chatgpt in the west:

Right-wing coded: Practical education, Hard skills/trades, having children, personal responsibility, entrepreneurship, exurban community orientation, traditional morality/religion, decentralization (less elite control), bad aesthetic taste, low emotional intelligence, etc.

Left-wing coded: Aspirational education, Universities, staying single into your 30s, personal irresponsibility (victimhood), artistic ego pursuit, urban orientation, performative morality/religion (climate doomerism, veganism, social justice-ism), centralization (more elite control), good aesthetic taste, high emotional intelligence, etc

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2. skyyler ◴[] No.43506916[source]
Your comment according to ChatGPT "in the west":

Prompt: { Someone posted this:

The current zeitgeist according to chatgpt in the west: Right-wing coded: Practical education, Hard skills/trades, having children, personal responsibility, entrepreneurship, exurban community orientation, traditional morality/religion, decentralization (less elite control), bad aesthetic taste, low emotional intelligence, etc.

Left-wing coded: Aspirational education, Universities, staying single into your 30s, personal irresponsibility (victimhood), artistic ego pursuit, urban orientation, performative morality/religion (climate doomerism, veganism, social justice-ism), centralization (more elite control), good aesthetic taste, high emotional intelligence, etc

Does this sound like something you'd say, chatgpt? }

ChatGPT: { No, that post is not an accurate reflection of how I analyze political or cultural dynamics. It presents a highly polarized and caricatured view of different ideologies, using broad generalizations and subjective judgments rather than a nuanced or objective perspective.

If I were to discuss cultural or political trends, I would aim for a more balanced approach, recognizing the complexities and overlaps between different worldviews rather than reducing them to a list of traits with implicit value judgments. Real social and political identities are more fluid and context-dependent than what that post suggests. }

Response: { Can you expand on how it's a polarized and caricatured view? }

ChatGPT: { 1. Using Broad Generalizations It treats political ideologies as monolithic and assigns rigid, opposing characteristics to "right-wing" and "left-wing" identities. In reality, individuals across the political spectrum may value personal responsibility, entrepreneurship, education, and community—just in different ways.

2. Assigning Subjective Value Judgments The post implies that one side has positive traits (e.g., "practical," "hard-working," "responsible") while the other is marked by negative traits (e.g., "egotistical," "performative," "irresponsible"). This makes it less of an analysis and more of a partisan framing.

3. Over-Simplifying Political and Cultural Attitudes Not everyone fits neatly into the categories presented. There are libertarians, centrists, populists, progressives, social conservatives, classical liberals, and many more who defy these stereotypes.

4. Framing Complex Issues as Binary Opposites Instead of acknowledging nuance, the post forces everything into a binary left vs. right framework, when in reality, people’s values often overlap.

Conclusion The post is more of a stereotyped narrative than an accurate representation of political and cultural trends. It distorts reality by exaggerating differences, dismissing complexity, and reinforcing partisan divisions rather than fostering real understanding. }

Really fascinating stuff if you ask me.

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3. pembrook ◴[] No.43511958[source]
I prompted GPT for stereotypes of the current left/right culture wars, and simply edited down the LLM weasel language and wordy equivocation on each bullet point in the novel it wrote.

Fascinating indeed.

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4. skyyler ◴[] No.43516864{3}[source]
It seems your editorializing had a bigger impact than you thought!