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388 points pseudolus | 7 comments | | HN request time: 2.135s | source | bottom
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fullshark ◴[] No.43473662[source]
Bachelor Degrees need a complete rethink, it was basically modified finishing school for rich capital owners, needing to make their children of proper class before they could take over their businesses.

It then became a vocational degree for the working class, despite being completely detached from useful skills for a wide swathes of degrees. The only value is that you could talk the talk and become a member of the professional managerial class if you impressed the right hiring committee/individual.

In spite of this, we decided the working class should take out crippling loans to pay for this degree, and be in debt for the rest of their working life.

It's not sustainable, and just forgiving the debt only will make it all more expensive and less aligned with actual results we desire (useful workers).

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KPGv2 ◴[] No.43484968[source]
> despite being completely detached from useful skills for a wide swathes of degrees

It's a nice suggestion, but it's one that isn't supported by the evidence. Even controlling for other factors, a college degree makes more productive workers. And given that it's controlling for other factors, "selection bias" becomes a hard argument to make. STEMbros get real arrogant about their degrees (I have one; I've seen it first hand), but like it or not the person with an English degree still learned a lot of useful skills.

Going to uni to major in a specific career is how you get screwed when available careers change.

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JamesBarney ◴[] No.43485752[source]
> Even controlling for other factors, a college degree makes more productive workers

I'd like to see this study. Most of the data I've seen that is pro-college still has massive confounds.

Two twins graduate high school. One gets a crappy copywriting job, and spends her free time reading books on how to write better, and specifically how to do copywriting. The other gets an English degree. I'm not nearly as confident as you are the one with the English degree is going to be a better copywriter.

I don't disagree you can learn skills, but cognitive science literature solidly shows far transfer is not a thing, and when it is it's incredibly inefficient. i.e. Reading the great works of Russian literature might make you a better copywriter but at a vastly slower pace than writing copy, or reading a book on copywriting.

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Clubber ◴[] No.43486072[source]
I think an undervalued aspect of college over self learning for most is that college requires you to learn a broader array of things. If I was allowed just pick the classes I wanted to take for four years, they would have all been computer related classes. I would never had taken Chemistry, Physics, Drama, Psychology, History, International Relations, or anything that makes me a more educated and well rounded thinker.
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1. tayo42 ◴[] No.43487744[source]
15 years later do you think these classes matter?

Im not totally sure I could tell you most of what I even took let alone what I learned in those classes.

Maybe right after college there's a window of a couple years.

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2. JamesBarney ◴[] No.43488782[source]
Many people state how much they appreciate their degree. But when it comes down to it almost everyone who goes back from a second degree does so with the specific purpose of getting a credential for their career.

No one really values the intangible personal development that comes with education. If they did I'd have 5 friends who went back for a second degree to enrich themselves instead of 0.

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3. timdev2 ◴[] No.43490793[source]
I think there's diminishing returns. A broad, liberal arts, undergraduate education develops critical thinking and reading skills in a zero-to-one kind of way. Once you've attained those skills (whether through a college degree or some other way), further enrichment via self-study is much more easily doable.
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4. Clubber ◴[] No.43494078{3}[source]
>I think there's diminishing returns.

This is definitely true. I think pre-graduate college is pretty eye opening, at least when I went. In most high schools, they just cover the top layer of knowledge; in college they go quite a bit deeper. "They never taught us that in high school," is a saying that applies.

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5. KPGv2 ◴[] No.43494619[source]
> 15 years later do you think these classes matter?

Yes. A broad, liberal arts education made me a better, more informed citizen. One might even say I know more than the current President (certainly his supporters) about tariffs, what affects the price of eggs, etc.

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6. eastbound ◴[] No.43497476[source]
If you used all that knowledge to disdain others instead of learning from them, then you have learnt nothing.

“Yes but I’m right and they’re wrong” — When you’re 49% of the population, it doesn’t matter.

7. BeFlatXIII ◴[] No.43498202{4}[source]
> "They never taught us that in high school," is a saying that applies.

Equally likely, the kid just didn't pay attention.