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71 points seanobannon | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.905s | source
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hannob ◴[] No.43462913[source]
As a counterpoint, I recommend this article: https://ketanjoshi.co/2024/08/12/texas-builds-clean-power-bu...

It looks into the numbers for the Texas renewable buildout, and there's a very important caveat: the amount of renewables you build is not the relevant metric. Emission reduction is. And Texas does not succeed there.

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jandrese ◴[] No.43462951[source]
> Emission reduction is. And Texas does not succeed there.

Are you saying they would have released less CO2 had they installed natural gas power plants instead?

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ZeroGravitas ◴[] No.43463004[source]
Maybe they are saying that if they'd followed California's policies they'd have a higher percentage of their power from renewables and they wouldn't be so wasteful with the energy they do generate.

Because that's the point of this article isn't it? To follow Texas policies, not California's, by pointing to absolute numbers of renewables.

If they looked at absolute numbers on coal and gas they'd look worse.

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epistasis ◴[] No.43463031[source]
California is not plummeting in total emissions either, which is the point of the plots in there.

The only thing that could move this along faster is to shut down fully running and functional fossil fuel facilities, which means that the huge capital assets are stranded and a big loss to the people who paid for them.

There, Texas's approach of private investors bearing the cost of that poor investment will fare much better than California's approach of letting the utility bill customers for their poor decisions. (I say this as a Californian absolutely INFURIATED at our toothless public utility commission allowing six whole rate increases in the past year, making electricity for a heat pumpfar more expensive than burning gas for heating, and making charging an EV about the same cost as fueling gas car, instead of much cheaper.)

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sightbroke ◴[] No.43463177[source]
I don't really know, the details of measuring energy consumption, emissions, and price is a fairly convoluted concept as far as I know.

Asking google AI:

"California emmisions rate" gave:

"California has seen a decline in greenhouse gas emissions, with a 20% reduction since 2000, while its economy has grown significantly. The state aims to reduce emissions to 85% below 1990 levels by 2045 and achieve carbon neutrality by 2045"

Then asking "Texas emissions rate" gave:

"Texas is a major emitter of carbon dioxide in the United States, producing 13.4% of the nation's total in 2022, with transportation being a significant source of emissions"

followed by:

"Emissions Leader: In 2022, Texas produced 663 million metric tons of carbon dioxide, more than double that of California, the second-largest producer"

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1. epistasis ◴[] No.43463314[source]
Google AI is not really useful, but going to an actual reliable source from that such as California's emissions inventory:

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/ghg-inventory-graphs

The graphs seem to contradict those in the article, as the article has a huge annual variability not shown in the government data, and also the article does not show the decline in the "Electric Power" sector that's shown so clearly in the CA government data.

I also would not agree with the article's assessment that Texas is a "disaster" based on the same sort of plot. Serving the needs of ever more people, with an ever growing GDP, but keeping emissions constant is a win environmentally.

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2. sightbroke ◴[] No.43463507[source]
Texas has both less people and lower GDP than California yet emits more. How is that not a bit of a disaster?
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3. epistasis ◴[] No.43463735[source]
Well, the status is a disaster but it's an ever decreasing disaster, and when evaluating "do lots of renewables help?" I think it makes more sense to look at the direction of where the puck is going rather than where it started from before the renewables were added. (And one note, Texas' power sector emissions also include lots of "extra" emissions from fossil fuel consumption that should be attributed to the downstream consumers of those fossil fuels).
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4. sightbroke ◴[] No.43463880{3}[source]
> (And one note, Texas' power sector emissions also include lots of "extra" emissions from fossil fuel consumption that should be attributed to the downstream consumers of those fossil fuels).

Are you saying it includes the USE of fossil fuels produced in the State outside of the State OR the emissions related to the production of fossil fuels in the State?

The former does not in my opinion sound accurate while the latter I fail to see changes anything because surely emissions from other industries (steel/construction/etc) are included for the State that they are made in.