←back to thread

Understanding Solar Energy

(www.construction-physics.com)
261 points chmaynard | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.21s | source
Show context
bryanlarsen ◴[] No.43423941[source]
Great article. Unfortunately his California duck curve graph only shows 2023. A graph including 2024 shows how batteries are dramatically flattening the duck curve:

https://cdn-ilcjnih.nitrocdn.com/BVTDJPZTUnfCKRkDQJDEvQcUwtA...

https://reneweconomy.com.au/battery-storage-is-dramatically-...

replies(3): >>43424435 #>>43425755 #>>43426846 #
epistasis ◴[] No.43424435[source]
And similarly the battery prices are very outdated. I don't blame the author for using those estimates, I frequently do too just because getting access to current data usually requires paying money.

But making decisions on that data without understanding that current prices and near-term prices will be about half of that price will lead to bad decisions. And when thinking 5-10 years out, not taking the full exponential drop in battery and solar prices is beyond foolish.

replies(2): >>43425520 #>>43433066 #
pyrale ◴[] No.43433066[source]
> And when thinking 5-10 years out, not taking the full exponential drop in battery and solar prices is beyond foolish.

The curve on solar is gradually getting flatter, though. Lazard's last LCOE report even saw it increase, partly because of inflation.

replies(1): >>43434136 #
kragen ◴[] No.43434136[source]
PV panels have dropped in cost in nominal euros by 21% over the last year, which is roughly the long-term trend since solar became profitable without subsidies around 02014: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

Possibly you are only looking at prices inside the US, where anti-renewable-energy regulations drive the cost of solar energy through the roof.

replies(2): >>43434917 #>>43436151 #
1. kragen ◴[] No.43436151[source]
To expand on this 21% yearly rate, my notes say that in July 02014 the price on the Solarserver page was €0.55/Wp, presumably for the "low cost" category, which is now (February) at €0.070/Wp. That drop by a factor of 7.86 over 10 years and 8 months (128 months) works out to 1.62% per month (√√√√√√√7.86 ≈ 1.0162) which is coincidentally 21.3% yearly growth in watts per euro (a 17.6% cost reduction per year).

This is staggering, even at its current level. €0.070/Wp at a nominal 15% capacity factor is €0.46/W; at a 5% interest rate, assuming no aging, that's €0.74 per gigajoule, or, in the quaint non-SI units more commonly used for trading energy, €0.0027/kWh†, €0.029 per liter of diesel, 10¢ per gallon of gasoline, or US$4.60 per barrel of oil. And it's pure, undiluted exergy; you incur no Carnot losses to use it to drive motors or train neural networks.

The current WTI oil price is US$68.20 per barrel of oil: https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/oil-price?ty.... That makes solar energy fourteen times cheaper than oil, or more than thirty times cheaper if you're using it for transport or electricity.

The US's current policy of imposing prohibitive import tariffs on solar panels is similar to the Arab oil embargo of 01973, but self-imposed, attempting to prolong the energy crisis that began at that time.

______

† Not €0.27/kWh or even €0.027/kWh. €0.0027/kWh. 0.28¢/kWh.