←back to thread

Understanding Solar Energy

(www.construction-physics.com)
261 points chmaynard | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.21s | source
Show context
bryanlarsen ◴[] No.43423941[source]
Great article. Unfortunately his California duck curve graph only shows 2023. A graph including 2024 shows how batteries are dramatically flattening the duck curve:

https://cdn-ilcjnih.nitrocdn.com/BVTDJPZTUnfCKRkDQJDEvQcUwtA...

https://reneweconomy.com.au/battery-storage-is-dramatically-...

replies(3): >>43424435 #>>43425755 #>>43426846 #
Calwestjobs ◴[] No.43425755[source]
Hot water tank heated by electricity and powering on at noon is flattening curve. You can say hot water tanks are cheapest, simplest and fastest deployed energy storage device.

Solar + hot water tank can provide any house in US with 100% solar hot water (from PV!) for 80% of time, remaining 20 % of time you can have 10-99% solar heated water.

So we should focus on saying to people that if they buy solar and add electric heating element to hot water tank, then PV system will pay itself much sooner and their batteries will last longer. Becasue it is known and predictable load, you need hot water every day. And hot water is order of magnitude more energy then TV, lighting...

By lowering household usage like this we can make energy transition faster, cheaper.

Also proper construction - house heated only 10 days in a year - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KHScgjTJtE

replies(8): >>43425977 #>>43426144 #>>43426191 #>>43426692 #>>43427345 #>>43428024 #>>43431287 #>>43433336 #
epistasis ◴[] No.43426144[source]
Converting a gas water heater to electric and/or solar is one of the best bang for the buck on decarbonization too. Something that should be done before buying an electric car or swapping out your gas furnace for a heat pump. Though I'm terrible at following my own advice, I still have a gas water heater, just because I needed to replace my car and furnace before I needed to replace my water heater. That said, the sunk cost fallacy applies to carbon emissions just as hard as it does to dollars so I have little excuse for not replacing it except laziness (and space on the breaker panel...)
replies(3): >>43427222 #>>43428408 #>>43432773 #
fho ◴[] No.43432773[source]
Problem being that electric water heating is a lot more expensive in e.g. Germany where gas prices are lower than electricity prices per kWh delivered. (~12 vs. 39 eurocent per kWh)

So blindly converting a gas water heater to electric will roughly quadruple your water heating cost.

replies(2): >>43433341 #>>43434766 #
ben_w ◴[] No.43433341[source]
Only a problem when you're limiting yourself to resistive heating. Heat pumps can heat water, not just air, and are several times more efficient than resistive.

I've got a heat pump, and I'm in Germany.

Also, if you're in Germany, you can get a balcony PV system from half the supermarkets a few hundred euros, and those are designed to be installed DIY without needing an electrician. Limited power, sure, but way cheaper than €0.39/kWh delivered:

https://www.lidl.de/p/vale-balkonkraftwerk-ecoflow-820-w-800...

https://www.kaufland.de/product/502015379/?search_value=balk...

replies(2): >>43434090 #>>43435319 #
kragen ◴[] No.43434090[source]
Your first link seems to be 349€ for 800Wp including microinverter. German utility-scale PV has a capacity factor averaging about 12% IIRC, but presumably a balcony system will be lower because it isn't optimally angled for the sun, say 8%. Then that's about 64W, which is 560 kWh per year. 349€ over 10 years would be 35€ per year, about 0.06€/kWh.

That's still about six times the cost of wholesale low-cost solar panels: https://www.solarserver.de/photovoltaik-preis-pv-modul-preis...

64 watts is about 40–50 liters per day of hot water heated resistively, presumably closer to 150 liters per day with a heat pump. But it seems like the heat pump is only saving you the 700€ for two more such balcony systems, assuming you have the space. Moreover, you don't need a microinverter for a resistive heater.

replies(2): >>43434130 #>>43442622 #
ben_w ◴[] No.43434130[source]
Oh indeed, balcony systems are small and limited — the constraints that led to them are: (1) DIY-safe, (2) useful for rented apartments (limited window or balcony fencing space, may not be allowed to fix something to an exterior wall).

I'm not sure if you're allowed to just resistively dump an off-grid PV system into a resistive heating system, but I guess if you did, you could indeed save on the cost of the inverter.

replies(2): >>43434190 #>>43434837 #
1. kragen ◴[] No.43434190[source]
I believe that even in Germany you can connect a low-voltage solar panel to a battery or heating element without any licensing approvals beyond CE. Low-voltage wiring poses much less risk of electrical shock and is consequently exempt from most safety regulations.