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Aurornis ◴[] No.43209537[source]
Important to note that the serotonin theory of depression doesn't have to be strictly true for SSRIs to be effective. People who having passing familiarity with neuroscience often assume that psychiatric medications work by correcting deficiencies, but this isn't true. It's also not accurate to say that SSRIs "give you more serotonin" or any of the other variations on that theme.

Neurotransmitters aren't simple levels in the brain that go up and down, despite how much podcasters and fitness influencers talk about them like that. Neurotransmitter dynamics are complex and the long-term adaptations after taking medications like an SSRI can't be simply described in terms of "levels" going up and down. There are changes in frequency, duration, and movement of Serotonin across synapses that are much more complex. There are also adaptations to the receptors, including auto-receptors which modulate release of neurotransmitters (side note: some newer antidepressants also directly target those autoreceptors with possibly slight improvements in side effect profile).

So keep that in mind when reading anything about the serotonin theory of depression. This is often brought up as a strawman argument to attack SSRIs, but we've known for decades that the serotonin theory of depression never fully explained the situation. We've also known that some conditions like anxiety disorders are associated with increased serotonin activity in parts of the brain, which SSRIs can normalize.

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aeturnum ◴[] No.43209670[source]
Exactly this - SSRI's efficacy was established based on improvements in reports from depressed people and we formed a theory about the mechanism based on the interactions we understood. As we try to prove that theory out it turns out our theories don't hold - but people who are depressed still improve when on SSRIs! So we're still working on the mechanism (which we always knew was incomplete at best) but this work isn't about the underlying efficacy of the drugs on the condition. It's about the nerdy explanation for why SSRIs work.
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arcticbull ◴[] No.43210180[source]
SSRIs aren’t shown to be much better than placebo and are shown to be about as effective as therapy — which is actually durable.

There’s also rates of sexual side effects in excess of 70% [1] and they cause weight gain which is separately associated with depression.

In fact industry data shows a smaller gap between SSRIs and placebo than FDA data. See Figure 1. [2]

The problem with SSRIs is that serotonin receptors are all over the body including in the gonads and they play a large role in appetite regulation.

They do something but it’s not nearly what people assume.

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6007725/

[2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4592645/

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jdietrich ◴[] No.43212806[source]
I read this sort of critique often, but what are people living with debilitating depression supposed to do? SSRIs are barely better than placebo, but so is psychotherapy; SSRIs have side-effects, but at least they're cheap and readily available. Exercise is also barely better than placebo, if you're actually capable of maintaining that effort. Everything else in the armamentarium is some combination of less effective, more risky and/or prohibitively expensive.

Do we need better treatments for depression? Yes, desperately. Are some people with mild, self-limiting illness taking SSRIs unnecessarily? Probably, in some places. Are many people with serious depressive illness not trying drugs that might help them? Definitely. Does denigrating the least-worst treatment for most people actually help anyone?

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DANmode ◴[] No.43215746[source]
> what are people living with debilitating depression supposed to do?

Way more depression than anyone is aware is clinical depression.

Address the issues in your life, and your long-tail health.

For me, it was multiple systemic infections - took the drugs and buried it down, didn't realize until it got really bad. Luckily I was young enough to survive the mistake.

If your endocrine system is doing the wrong thing, ask why.

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tsimionescu ◴[] No.43221237[source]
> Way more depression than anyone is aware is clinical depression.

I don't know what you wanted to say here. Clinical depression is typically used as an explicit emphasis to either emphasise that it is professionally diagnosed (as opposed to layman observations), or to emphasise that it is depression so bad it requires hospitalization (such as people who are so depressed they literally can't get out of bed for days on end).

But you seem to be using this term to mean "depression symptoms caused by other diseases"?

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1. s__s ◴[] No.43222901[source]
Clinical depression is neither of those things.

It’s also called Major depressive disorder. It’s basically depression that isn’t a temporary response to something. It’s long lasting depression that doesn’t go away.

You can easily look up the diagnostic criteria online.