←back to thread

287 points shadaj | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
Show context
bsnnkv ◴[] No.43196091[source]
Last month I switched from a role working on a distributed system (FAANG) to a role working on embedded software which runs on cards in data center racks.

I was in my last role for a year, and 90%+ of my time was spent investigating things that went "missing" at one of many failure points between one of the many distributed components.

I wrote less than 200 lines of code that year and I experienced the highest level of burnout in my professional career.

The technical aspect that contributed the most to this burnout was both the lack of observability tooling and the lack of organizational desire to invest in it. Whenever I would bring up this gap I would be told that we can't spend time/money and wait for people to create "magic tools".

So far the culture in my new embedded (Rust, fwiw) position is the complete opposite. If you're burnt out working on distributed systems and you care about some of the same things that I do, it's worth giving embedded software dev a shot.

replies(24): >>43196122 #>>43196159 #>>43196163 #>>43196180 #>>43196239 #>>43196674 #>>43196899 #>>43196910 #>>43196931 #>>43197177 #>>43197902 #>>43198895 #>>43199169 #>>43199589 #>>43199688 #>>43199980 #>>43200186 #>>43200596 #>>43200725 #>>43200890 #>>43202090 #>>43202165 #>>43205115 #>>43208643 #
EtCepeyd ◴[] No.43196239[source]
This resonates a lot with me.

Distributed systems require insanely hard math at the bottom (paxos, raft, gossip, vector clocks, ...) It's not how the human brain works natively -- we can learn abstract thinking, but it's very hard. Embedded systems sometimes require the parallelization of some hot spots, but those are more like the exception AIUI, and you have a lot more control over things; everything is more local and sequential. Even data race free multi-threaded programming in modern C and C++ is incredibly annoying; I dislike dealing with both an explicit mesh of peers, and with a leaky abstraction that lies that threads are "symmetric" (as in SMP) while in reality there's a complicated messaging network underneath. Embedded is simpler, and it seems to require less that practitioners become advanced mathematicians for day to day work.

replies(5): >>43196342 #>>43196567 #>>43196906 #>>43197331 #>>43199711 #
AlotOfReading ◴[] No.43196906[source]
Most embedded systems are distributed systems these days, there's simply a cultural barrier that prevents most practitioners from fully grappling with that fact. A lot of systems I've worked on have benefited from copying ideas invented by distributed systems folks working on networking stuff 20 years ago.
replies(3): >>43197438 #>>43199391 #>>43199780 #
DanielHB ◴[] No.43197438[source]
I worked in an IoT platform that consisted of 3 embedded CPUs and one linux board. The kicker was that the linux board could only talk directly to one of the chips, but had to be capable of updating the software running on all of them.

That platform was parallelizable of up to 6 of its kind in a master-slave configuration (so the platform in the physical position 1 would assume the "master role" for a total of 18 embedded chips and 6 linux boards) on top of having optionally one more box with one more CPU in it for managing some other stuff and integrating with each of our clients hardware. Each client had a different integration, but at least they mostly integrated with us, not the other way around.

Yeah it was MUCH more complex than your average cloud. Of course the original designers didn't even bother to make a common network protocol for the messages, so each point of communication not only used a different binary format, they also used different wire formats (CAN bus, Modbus and ethernet).

But at least you didn't need to know kubernetes, just a bunch of custom stuff that wasn't well documented. Oh yeah and don't forget the boot loaders for each embedded CPU, we had to update the bootloaders so many times...

The only saving grace is that a lot of the system could rely on the literal physical security because you need to have physical access (and a crane) to reach most of the system. Pretty much only the linux boards had to have high security standards and that was not that complicated to lock down (besides maintaining a custom yocto distribution that is).

replies(1): >>43197538 #
AlotOfReading ◴[] No.43197538[source]
Many automotive systems have >100 processors scattered around the vehicle, maybe a dozen of which are "important". I'm amazed they ever work given the quality of the code running on them.
replies(1): >>43197571 #
1. DanielHB ◴[] No.43197571{3}[source]
A LOT of QA