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F8 – an 8 bit architecture designed for C and memory efficiency [video]

(fosdem.org)
79 points mpweiher | 2 comments | 17 Feb 25 21:24 UTC | HN request time: 0.002s | source
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stevefan1999 ◴[20 Feb 25 16:43 UTC] No.43116899[source]▶
C is undeniably a legendary programming language, but it's time to move beyond the constraints of the C abstract machine, which was heavily shaped by the PDP-11 due to Unix's origins on that architecture. C feels outdated for modern computing needs.

It lacks features like lambda calculus, closures, and coroutines—powerful and proven paradigms that are essential in modern programming languages. These limitations make it harder to fully embrace contemporary programming practices.

The dominance of C and its descendants has forced our systems to remain tied to its design, holding back progress. Intel tried to introduce hardware assisted garbage collection, which unfortunately failed miserably because C doesn't need it, and we are still having to cope with garbage collection entirely in software.

While I’m not suggesting we abandon C entirely (I still use it, like when writing C FFI for some projects), we need to explore new possibilities and move beyond C to better align with modern architectures and programming needs.

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codr7 ◴[20 Feb 25 17:30 UTC] No.43117623[source]▶
I'm pretty sure the second there is a significantly better alternative that offers the same flexibility and control, plenty of people will jump.

Same for C++.

Assuming everyone else is an idiot leads nowhere worth going.

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ff317 ◴[20 Feb 25 17:33 UTC] No.43117656[source]▶
https://ziglang.org/ is a solid future C-replacement, IMHO. There's pretty much no downsides and all upsides from a C hacker's perspective. It just hasn't reached 1.0 yet!
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baranul ◴[25 Feb 25 06:25 UTC] No.43168829[source]▶
Not everyone thinks of Zig as a "no downsides and all upsides" C-replacement. First, a lot of people will take issue with it still being in beta and it being unknown how many more years will it take to reach 1.0. There are a bunch of C-replacements, or at least viable alternative languages out there. Both old and new. With more "C-killers" likely to pop-up in the not so distant future.

There are also a lot of people, after doing their Zig language reviews, that don't like it. Muratori (Handmade Hero) won't touch it and there was a recent article that's been covered on here and other sites, where the person explained why they stopped using it (linked below).

https://strongly-typed-thoughts.net/blog/zig-2025 (Zig; what I think after months of using it)

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1. hitekker ◴[26 Feb 25 02:24 UTC] No.43179944{3}[source]▶
IIRC, the blog you linked was written by someone who loves Rust and other languages which have, to say the least, a different philosophy from C and Zig.

I'm not familiar with Muratori's opinion on Zig; do you have a link?

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2. baranul ◴[27 Feb 25 19:59 UTC] No.43197853[source]▶
Muratori, who is a well known C programmer and instructor, has made his dislike of Zig quite clear[1]. Others, like Tsoding (many videos) and Kihlander (doesn't like syntax among other things), have given clear reasons for their dislike of Zig or why it was not their preference[2][3]. Various recognized programmers are not going to go along with, "no downsides and all upsides". Which for any language still in beta, would be a huge stretch in believability, by itself.

It's not a Rust thing, as many C/C++ programmers are not advocates of it either and if venturing out to something else, can prefer other languages. Tsoding has even dunked on Rust as being unreadable[4].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVVhwALd0o4 (Language Perf... from 29:50)

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r49hMsruwps (Tsoding when Zig :-))

[3]: https://kihlander.net/post/a-zig-diary/

[4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omVpuhch9MQ (Rust Is UNREADABLE)