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257 points pmig | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.248s | source
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time4tea ◴[] No.43099396[source]
The jvm is a pretty insane beast. It will do usage based recompilation, escape analysis for memory, so non heap allocation is super fast, has great memory safety... But a lot of people use it with spring/spring boot, a technology designed to work around the complexities of a particular type of middleware software in the late 90s and early 2000s. It's cargo cult programming of the highest order. In the OP, the author is comparing apples with oranges, with a bit of misunderstanding that java/jvm means spring boot, and while that is true for a lot of people and certainly a lot of stuff on the internet implies that 'this is the way', it's not required. Startup times of ~100ms are absolutely standard for a big program, similarly unit tests taking 1ms. I prefer to write kotlin rather than java, as it's a nicer language ,IMHO, but still those bytecodes run on Jvm and same stuff applies.

Edit: im not advocating writing 'ls' in java, and I would also agree that java uses more memory for small programs, so its not a systems programming language probably.

Just use new() it's pretty fast.

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okeuro49 ◴[] No.43099935[source]
> But a lot of people use it with spring/spring boot, a technology designed to work around the complexities of a particular type of middleware...

No, people use it because we don't want to reinvent the wheel.

Spring is well documented and Spring Boot gives you a set of dependencies that all work together.

Then you don't have to spend time messing around with things like OAuth and authentication, you can just write the application.

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anthropodie ◴[] No.43100066[source]
> Then you don't have to spend time messing around with things like OAuth and authentication, you can just write the application.

It sounds good but in reality people end up spending time messing around with config files and annotations.

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1. mike_hearn ◴[] No.43103416[source]
Maybe? Depends on the framework. I've been using some Micronaut lately and it's a Spring-inspired framework where a lot of stuff Spring does at runtime is done up front at compile time.

The result is apps start really fast, can be compiled to a standalone native binary with GraalVM, use little memory, and errors that would once have resulted in a complex exception at startup now yield reasonable compiler errors instead (it has compiler plugins to make this work well).

I can't say I've spent much time messing with annotations or config files in this project. Certainly, what little time has been spent on the framework is more than saved by what it does.