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1343 points Hold-And-Modify | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.253s | source

Hello.

Cloudflare's Browser Intergrity Check/Verification/Challenge feature used by many websites, is denying access to users of non-mainstream browsers like Pale Moon.

Users reports began on January 31:

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32045

This situation occurs at least once a year, and there is no easy way to contact Cloudflare. Their "Submit feedback" tool yields no results. A Cloudflare Community topic was flagged as "spam" by members of that community and was promptly locked with no real solution, and no official response from Cloudflare:

https://community.cloudflare.com/t/access-denied-to-pale-moo...

Partial list of other browsers that are being denied access:

Falkon, SeaMonkey, IceCat, Basilisk.

Hacker News 2022 post about the same issue, which brought attention and had Cloudflare quickly patching the issue:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31317886

A Cloudflare product manager declared back then: "...we do not want to be in the business of saying one browser is more legitimate than another."

As of now, there is no official response from Cloudflare. Internet access is still denied by their tool.

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windsignaling ◴[] No.42955454[source]
As a website owner and VPN user I see both sides of this.

On one hand, I get the annoying "Verify" box every time I use ChatGPT (and now due its popularity, DeepSeek as well).

On the other hand, without Cloudflare I'd be seeing thousands of junk requests and hacking attempts everyday, people attempting credit card fraud, etc.

I honestly don't know what the solution is.

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rozap ◴[] No.42956059[source]
What is a "junk" request? Is it hammering an expensive endpoint 5000 times per second, or just somebody using your website in a way you don't like? I've also been on both sides of it (on-call at 3am getting dos'd is no fun), but I think the danger here is that we've gotten to a point where a new google can't realistically be created.

The thing is that these tools are generally used to further entrench power that monopolies, duopolies, and cartels already have. Example: I've built an app that compares grocery prices as you make a shopping list, and you would not believe the extent that grocers go to to make price comparison difficult. This thing doesn't make thousands or even hundreds of requests - maybe a few dozen over the course of a day. What I thought would be a quick little project has turned out to be wildly adversarial. But now spite driven development is a factor so I will press on.

It will always be a cat and mouse game, but we're at a point where the cat has a 46 billion dollar market cap and handles a huge portion of traffic on the internet.

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OptionOfT ◴[] No.42957266[source]
> and you would not believe the extent that grocers go to to make price comparison difficult. This thing doesn't make thousands or even hundreds of requests - maybe a few dozen over the course of a day.

It's gonna get even worse. Walmart & Kroger are implementing digital price tags, so whatever you see on the website will probably (purposefully?) be out of date by the time you get to the store.

Stores don't want you to compare.

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rozap ◴[] No.42957609[source]
Originally I was excited to see that kroger had an API, until just about the first thing that the ToS said was "you can't use this for price comparison".

And yea, I imagine dynamic pricing will make things even more complicated.

That being said, that's why this feature isn't built into the billion shopping list apps that are out there. Because it's a pain.

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1. unethical_ban ◴[] No.42959726[source]
Price comparison should be required by law. In fact, I think it would be interesting for a city to require its major grocers to feed pricing information to a public database.