←back to thread

The FAA’s Hiring Scandal

(www.tracingwoodgrains.com)
739 points firebaze | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
scott_w ◴[] No.42944787[source]
This is a truly excellent article and shines a light on a real problem and how it affects people in a real way. It’s an example of something that I’d seen rumblings of in left leaning media: that DEI was being implemented in the laziest and stupidest possible ways (though the ire was mostly directed at marketing efforts by corporations).

A story of a smaller, not that harmful, example of this laziness and stupidity: I was talking to a friend just a couple of weeks ago who’d left software engineering to become a paramedic around 2012 after experiencing misogyny in the workplace. A recruiter reached out on LinkedIn a few weeks ago about applying to a software engineering role. Her reaction was understandably irritated that the basic skill of reading her work history seemed missing before reaching out.

I do think that, particularly in the USA, the refusal of the left in power to critically engage with this topic in a thoughtful way has left the space open to Trump and people like him to turn it into a toxic rallying cry for supporters. I see something similar in the UK where Labour ministers are slammed by left leaning media for taking positions to address the public’s concerns in a way that’s more thoughtful that how the Tories were handling it, as the far right in the country has toxified the issue for them.

replies(7): >>42944872 #>>42946780 #>>42948847 #>>42948867 #>>42948970 #>>42952657 #>>42968214 #
thaumasiotes ◴[] No.42944872[source]
> It’s an example of something that I’d seen rumblings of in left leaning media: that DEI was being implemented in the laziest and stupidest possible ways

That's not news; it's been true for several decades. There isn't another legal way to do it.

The least harmful thing you can do, assuming you need to meet hiring quotas, is to specify that you have X slots for whites and Y slots for nonwhites, and then hire by merit into those separate groups.

That's so clean that it was outlawed very quickly. So instead, you still have X slots for whites and Y slots for nonwhites, but you have to pretend that they're all available to everybody, and you have to stop using objective metrics to hire, because doing that would make you unable to meet quota.

And you have to call Asians "white".

replies(2): >>42944916 #>>42951421 #
scott_w ◴[] No.42944916[source]
You fell into the instant trap I was talking about by equating DEI to “hiring quotas.” That’s a lazy and stupid approach to the problem of increasing opportunities for people from disadvantaged backgrounds. The solution is, unfortunately, much more difficult and requires work across society to achieve it.
replies(4): >>42945078 #>>42945083 #>>42945168 #>>42948244 #
thaumasiotes ◴[] No.42945083[source]
You're imagining that there's ever been a meaning of DEI other than quotas, but there hasn't. That's the way it began and the only thing it's ever done or wanted.
replies(1): >>42945302 #
scott_w ◴[] No.42945302[source]
Then maybe you should see how it’s done in other countries and companies. I’ve worked on hiring and we’ve never once lowered our standards just to get in a black candidate. What I’ve seen done is conscious outreach to increase diversity of applicants, changing language to increase applications from women, blind reviews where you can’t see the name or details of the applicant (to minimise subconscious bias).

All of these actually happen and, to a greater or lesser extent, do help without discriminating against white applicants. How do I know? I ended up only hiring two white men in that particular round!

replies(2): >>42945465 #>>42951660 #
aydyn[dead post] ◴[] No.42945465{3}[source]
[flagged]
scott_w ◴[] No.42945503{4}[source]
Since your response is to call me a liar, I won’t dignify the rest of your comment with a thoughtful reply.
replies(1): >>42945771 #
aydyn ◴[] No.42945771{5}[source]
I didnt call you a liar, I am claiming that people are not always truthful to themselves. Purposeful ignorance is an easy out.

For example, you made a factually incorrect claim about blind hiring, and its considerably easier to ignore that since addressing it devastates your larger point.

replies(1): >>42950511 #
ryandrake ◴[] No.42950511{6}[source]
He told you something he personally did/witnessed, and you replied with "not true." I'm not sure how else he should have interpreted that.
replies(1): >>42953969 #
aydyn ◴[] No.42953969{7}[source]
I think he truly believes it, but given the totality of his post it's very likely wrong. I'm not saying he is lying or a liar.

Again:

> blind reviews where you can’t see the name or details of the applicant (to minimise subconscious bias).

Its been shown that doing so _increases_ the amount of non-minority candidates selected, not the other way around.

replies(1): >>42954197 #
ryandrake ◴[] No.42954197{8}[source]
I've done hundreds of interviews and have also never been asked to raise or lower any bar based on the gender or race of the candidate. Would you say my statement is "not true"?
replies(1): >>42956614 #
1. aydyn ◴[] No.42956614{9}[source]
In a vacuum I wouldn't make a conjecture.

Given the current subject matter I would ask for clarification. For example, is one of your personal goals OR corporate goals within those hundreds of interviews to promote DEI?