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S1: A $6 R1 competitor?

(timkellogg.me)
851 points tkellogg | 20 comments | | HN request time: 1.883s | source | bottom
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mtrovo ◴[] No.42951263[source]
I found the discussion around inference scaling with the 'Wait' hack so surreal. The fact such an ingeniously simple method can impact performance makes me wonder how many low-hanging fruit we're still missing. So weird to think that improvements on a branch of computer science is boiling down to conjuring the right incantation words, how you even change your mindset to start thinking this way?
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cubefox ◴[] No.42951764[source]
Now imagine where we are in 12 months from now. This article from February 5 2025 will feel quaint by then. The acceleration keeps increasing. It seems likely we will soon have recursive self-improving AI -- reasoning models which do AI research. This will accelerate the rate of acceleration itself. It sounds stupid to say it, but yes, the singularity is near. Vastly superhuman AI now seems to arrive within the next few years. Terrifying.
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zoogeny ◴[] No.42955196[source]
This is something I have been suppressing since I don't want to become chicken little. Anyone who isn't terrified by the last 3 months probably doesn't really understand what is happening.

I went from accepting I wouldn't see a true AI in my lifetime, to thinking it is possible before I die, to thinking it is possible in in the next decade, to thinking it is probably in the next 3 years to wondering if we might see it this year.

Just 6 months ago people were wondering if pre-training was stalling out and if we hit a wall. Then deepseek drops with RL'd inference time compute, China jumps from being 2 years behind in the AI race to being neck-and-neck and we're all wondering what will happen when we apply those techniques to the current full-sized behemoth models.

It seems the models that are going to come out around summer time may be jumps in capability beyond our expectations. And the updated costs means that there may be several open source alternatives available. The intelligence that will be available to the average technically literate individual will be frightening.

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1. palmotea ◴[] No.42956212[source]
> The intelligence that will be available to the average technically literate individual will be frightening.

That's not the scary part. The scary part is the intelligence at scale that could be available to the average employer. Lots of us like to LARP that we're capitalists, but very few of us are. There's zero ideological or cultural framework in place to prioritize the well being of the general population over the profits of some capitalists.

AI, especially accelerating AI, is bad news for anyone who needs to work for a living. It's not going to lead to a Star Trek fantasy. It means an eventual phase change for the economy that consigns us (and most consumer product companies) to wither and fade away.

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2. 101008 ◴[] No.42956628[source]
I agree with you and I am scared. My problem is: if most people can't work, who is going to pay for the product/services created with IA?

I get a lot of "IA will allow us to create SaaS in a weekend" and "IA will take engineers jobs", which I think they both may be true. But a lot of SaaS surive because engineers pay for them -- if engineer don't exist anymore, a lot of SaaS won't either. If you eat your potential customers, creating quick SaaS doesn't make sense anymore (yeah, there are exceptions, etc., I know).

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3. immibis ◴[] No.42957011[source]
Those people will simply be surplus to requirements. They'll be left alone as long as they don't get in the way of the ruling class, and disposed of if they do. As usual in history.
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4. palmotea ◴[] No.42959261[source]
> My problem is: if most people can't work, who is going to pay for the product/services created with IA?

A lot of those will probably go under, too. I think a lot of people are in for a rude awakening.

The only people our society and economy really values are the elite with ownership and control, and the people who get to eat and have comfort are those who provide things that are directly or indirectly valuable to that elite. AI will enable a game of musical chairs, with economic participants iteratively eliminated as the technology advances, until there are only a few left controlling vast resources and capabilities, to be harnessed for personal whims. The rest of us will be like rats in a city, scraping by on the margins, unwanted, out of sight, subsisting on scraps, perhaps subject to "pest control" regimes.

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5. lodovic ◴[] No.42959650{3}[source]
That's a fallacy. You can't have an advanced economy with most people sitting on the side. Money needs to keep flowing. If all that remains of the economy consists of a few datacenters talking to each other, how can the ruling class profit off that?
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6. palmotea ◴[] No.42959792{4}[source]
> You can't have an advanced economy with most people sitting on the side.

If AI lives up to the hype, that will become possible.

> If all that remains of the economy consists of a few datacenters talking to each other, how can the ruling class profit off that?

I don't think it would be that. There'd also be power generation, manufacturing, mining, and construction, etc.; but all extremely automated. If you get to truly extreme levels of wealth concentration, things would shift out of our capitalist market system model, and concepts like "profit" would become anachronisms.

It actually might kinda look like the "economy" of Starcraft: you gather resources, decide what to build with them, and order it all around according to your whim. There will be a handful of guys playing, and everyone else will be a NPC.

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7. andreasmetsala ◴[] No.42960326[source]
> AI, especially accelerating AI, is bad news for anyone who needs to work for a living. It's not going to lead to a Star Trek fantasy. It means an eventual phase change for the economy that consigns us (and most consumer product companies) to wither and fade away.

How would that work? If there are no consumers then why even bother producing? If the cost of labor and capital trends towards zero then the natural consequence is incredible deflation. If the producers refuse to lower their prices then they either don’t participate in the market (which also means their production is pointless) or ensure some other way that the consumers can buy their products.

Our society isn’t really geared for handling double digit deflation so something does need to change if we really are accelerating exponentially.

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8. andreasmetsala ◴[] No.42960350{5}[source]
> It actually might kinda look like the "economy" of Starcraft: you gather resources, decide what to build with them, and order it all around according to your whim. There will be a handful of guys playing, and everyone else will be a NPC.

I guess if the “players” are sociopathic enough they might decide to just wipe out the NPCs. The possibility of someone like Putin or Musk becoming the sole member of the post-singularity humanity does make me pause.

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9. cubefox ◴[] No.42960579{6}[source]
That's assuming people like Altman can keep artificial superintelligence under human control. It very well may escape control and humanity would be disempowered forever. Or worse, wiped out.
10. nazgul17 ◴[] No.42960870{3}[source]
This is the same conclusion I can't help but reach. I would love nothing more but to be convinced that (there is a chance that) that is not going to happen.
11. kortilla ◴[] No.42962124{3}[source]
> The only people our society and economy really values are the elite with ownership and control

This isn’t true. The biggest companies are all rich because they cater to the massive US middle class. That’s where the big money is at.

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12. luc4sdreyer ◴[] No.42963042[source]
That is assuming the accelerating AI stays under human control.

We're racing up a hill at an ever-increasing speed, and we don't know what's on the other side. Maybe 80% chance that it's either nothing or "simply" a technological revolution.

13. palmotea ◴[] No.42963146{4}[source]
> This isn’t true. The biggest companies are all rich because they cater to the massive US middle class..

It is true, but I can see why you'd be confused. Let me ask you this: if members of the "the massive US middle class" can be replaced with automation, are those companies going 1) to keep paying those workers to support the middle-class demand which made them rich, or are they going to 2) fire them so more money can be shoveled up to the shareholders?

The answer is obviously #2, which has been proven time and again (e.g. how we came to have "the Rust Belt").

> That’s where the big money is at

Now, but not necessarily in the future. I think AI (if it doesn't hit a wall) will change that, maybe not instantaneously, but over time.

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14. palmotea ◴[] No.42963290[source]
> How would that work? If there are no consumers then why even bother producing?

Whim and ego. I think the advanced economy will shift to supporting trillionaires doing things like "DIY home improvement" for themselves. They'll own a bunch of automated resources (power generation, mining, manufacturing, AI engineers), and use it to do whatever they want. Build pyramids on the moon, while the now economically-useless former middle-class laborers shiver in the cold? Sure, why not?

15. danans ◴[] No.42963522{4}[source]
> Money needs to keep flowing. If all that remains of the economy consists of a few datacenters talking to each other, how can the ruling class profit off that?

Plenty of profit was made off feudalism, and technofeudalism has all the tools of modern technology at its disposal. If things go in that direction, they will have an unlimited supply of serfs desperate for whatever human work/livelihood is left.

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16. soco ◴[] No.42963733{5}[source]
So you end up with a huge starved mob trying to come all over your mansions and islands. I somehow think Musk totally capable of nuking those mobs, or unleash the (future) AI dogs over them, because the mob cannot produce anymore (because of AI) and cannot pay anymore (because no jobs because of AI). So the mob will be totally worthless to this style of "capitalism". Really why would they bother with UBI when they can let the mob just die out?
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17. soco ◴[] No.42963757{5}[source]
Unlimited supply yes, but highly limited usage for them. So even if a few will work for free, the rest will be starving, and angry.
18. ben_w ◴[] No.42964429[source]
> If there are no consumers then why even bother producing?

> If the producers refuse to lower their prices then they either don’t participate in the market (which also means their production is pointless) or ensure some other way that the consumers can buy their products.

Imagine you're a billionaire with a data centre and golden horde of androids.

You're the consumer, the robots make stuff for you; they don't make stuff for anyone else, just you, in the same way and for the same reason that your power tools and kitchen appliances don't commute to work — you could, if you wanted, lend them to people, just like those other appliances, but you'd have to actually choose to, it wouldn't be a natural consequence of the free market.

Their production is, indeed, pointless. This doesn't help anyone else eat. The moment anyone can afford to move from "have not" to "have", they drop out of the demand market for everyone else's economic output.

I don't know how big the impact of dropping out would be: the right says "trickle down economics" is good and this would be the exact opposite of that; while the left criticism's of trickle-down economics is that in practice the super-rich already have so much stuff that making them richer doesn't enrich anyone else who might service them, so if the right is correct then this is bad but if the left is correct then this makes very little difference.

Unfortunately, "nobody knows" is a great way to get a market panic all by itself.

19. palmotea ◴[] No.42969220{6}[source]
> Really why would they bother with UBI when they can let the mob just die out?

Personally, I think UBI is a ploy to keep the "huge starved mob[s]" pacified during the transition, when they still have enough power to act, before the tech oligarchs fully cement their control.

Once the common people are powerless to protect themselves and their interests, then they'll be left to die out.

20. kortilla ◴[] No.43042399{5}[source]
It’s true, but I can see why you’d be confused. You conflated what the economy rewards (which is what caters to the large middle class pool of money) with what individual companies try to optimize for (eliminating labor costs).