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Tell HN: Cloudflare is blocking Pale Moon and other non-mainstream browsers

1343 points Hold-And-Modify | 1 comments | 2/5/2025, 7:08:00 PM | HN request time: 0.229s | source

Hello.

Cloudflare's Browser Intergrity Check/Verification/Challenge feature used by many websites, is denying access to users of non-mainstream browsers like Pale Moon.

Users reports began on January 31:

https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32045

This situation occurs at least once a year, and there is no easy way to contact Cloudflare. Their "Submit feedback" tool yields no results. A Cloudflare Community topic was flagged as "spam" by members of that community and was promptly locked with no real solution, and no official response from Cloudflare:

https://community.cloudflare.com/t/access-denied-to-pale-moo...

Partial list of other browsers that are being denied access:

Falkon, SeaMonkey, IceCat, Basilisk.

Hacker News 2022 post about the same issue, which brought attention and had Cloudflare quickly patching the issue:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31317886

A Cloudflare product manager declared back then: "...we do not want to be in the business of saying one browser is more legitimate than another."

As of now, there is no official response from Cloudflare. Internet access is still denied by their tool.

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arielcostas ◴[2/5/2025, 8:15:00 PM] No.42954482[source]▶

A lot of people are failing to conceive the danger that poses to the open web the fact that a lot of traffic runs through/to a few bunch of providers (namely, CloudFlare, AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, and "smaller" ones like Fastly or Akamai) who can take this kind of measures without (many) website owners knowing or giving a crap about.

Google itself tried to push crap like Web Environment Integrity (WEI) so websites could verify "authentic" browsers. We got them to stop it (for now) but there was already code in the Chromium sources. What makes CloudFlare MITMing and blocking/punishing genuine users from visiting websites?

Why are we trusting CloudFlare to be a "good citizen" and not block unfairly/annoy certain people for whatever reason? Or even worse, serve modified content instead of what the actual origin is serving? I mean in the cases where CloudFlare re-encrypts the data, instead of only being a DNS provider. How can we trust that not third party has infiltrated their systems and compromised them? Except "just trust me bro", of course

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Retr0id ◴[2/5/2025, 8:41:00 PM] No.42954799[source]▶

> Or even worse, serve modified content instead of what the actual origin is serving?

I witnessed this! Last time I checked, in the default config, the connection between cloudflare and the origin server does not do strict TLS cert validation. Which for an active-MITM attacker is as good as no TLS cert validation at all.

A few years ago an Indian ISP decided that https://overthewire.org should be banned for hosting "hacking" content (iirc). For many Indian users, the page showed a "content blocked" page. But the error page had a padlock icon in the URL bar and a valid TLS cert - said ISP was injecting it between Cloudflare and the origin server using a self-signed cert, and Cloudflare was re-encrypting it with a legit cert. In this case it was very conspicuous, but if the tampering was less obvious there'd be no way for an end-user to detect the MITM.

I don't have any evidence on-hand, but iirc there were people reporting this issue on Twitter - somewhere between 2019 and 2021, maybe.

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1. progmetaldev ◴[2/5/2025, 8:48:00 PM] No.42954884[source]▶

Cloudflare recently started detecting whether strict TLS cert validation works with the origin server, and if it does, it enables strict validation automatically.