Apple Invites

Blame the telcos for the relative poor quality of text message multimedia (via MMS).

The telcos specify the size limits of MMS messages. iMessage has much higher limits in most cases, so iPhone has to use reduce the quality of the pics/videos to reach the lower size limits for sending to non-iMessage recipients.

For the telcos, why would they upgrade their size limits for MMS - it's just a cost centre for them. They probably make more by selling more iPhones as well.

I'll blame Apple for dragging their feet on RCS as long as they possibly could

Sorry, but the issue is not the standards for SMS/MMS. Yes, they're old standards, and have size limitations.

It's entirely up to Apple whether to make their iMessage platform available on other platforms.

They've shown they're quite invested in keeping it to running on Apple hardware only by going after and blocking any 3rd party attempt to provide iMessage compatible clients.

I'm an Apple guy and I have to disagree, it's not the Telco's.

Android implemented RCS and Apple dragged their feet in implementing the standardised platform such that high quality messaging was seamless and agnostic between brands

The iPhone needed to reduce the quality of pics/videos to non-iMessage recipients because Apple didn't support any other form of non-iMessage messaging.

RCS is not really an open standard though. If you want encrypted RCS with android phones, you can't unless Google lets you. At least that was true last I checked. I'm guessing it hasn't changed.

iMessage and FaceTime are great. RCS is a 1990s telco non-solution, and Google's adverts negging Apple about it are weird. The less I am aware of the telephone company in my life, the better.

This Invites thing is a separate app requiring a subscription service, and not just a + extension within iMessage or Calendar integration or something, so I doubt that I will be using it.

Are you saying if Apple asked Google to sit down and come up with an encrypted RCS working group and get proper interop done, it would be _Google_ that would decline?

It’s not as if SMS is e2e encrypted right? Is RCS worse in that dimension in some way?

who are you trying to convince? nobody in the know thinks this is a google problem, the facts are pretty obvious

Google totally controls that ability. Apple is not any better here, but it's weird to call out Apple as being the only meanie here, when both Apple and Google are equally terrible when it comes to cross-platform e2e messaging.

Thankfully we have Signal, which solves the problem better than either platform option.

Why would Google say yes?

iPhone, for non-iMessage recipients, was limited by MMS limits.

Who sets the MMS limits? the telcos - actually min(both ends), the iPhone sender's telco and the recipient's telco.

iMessage was introduced in 2011. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMessage

Google announced RCS support for Google Messages in 2019. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services

    "In June 2019, Google announced that it would begin to deploy RCS on an opt-in basis via the Messages app, with service compliant with the Universal Profile and hosted by Google (i.e. Jibe) rather than the user's carrier, if the carrier does not provide RCS."

Before 2019, Android users depended on their telco to support RCS. The RCS wikipedia article talks about Samsung support for RCS in USA in 2015 and Android Lollipop OS users getting RCS support - but they still needed telco support.

Not to say Signal is worse than either option, because it's not, but they really hampered adoption by removing SMS (at least in NA).

I have almost no way to convince anyone other than people very close to me to use it due to the (lack) of network effect. If they could just use it instead of the default messenger then it's a dramatically easier sell.

Obviously it's up to the Signal Foundation about the direction they take but I don't know if I've seen anyone agree with the justifications.

Google and Apple wrap up their locked down BS with SMS for the same reason. It's by default free of network effect but passively pulls people in.

They still needed Telco support and Telco's have adopted the technology, Apple has only just adopted the technology late last year, taking them approximately 4+ years since it was supported.

Yes Apple provided an improved messaging service before there was one via iMessage, however they have failed in allowing their service to integrate with the rest of the industry that is looking to support an improved open standard that would allow for a better experience between different mobile operating systems.

The original point you commented on was about Apple not integrating with other platforms.

As I said, I'm an Apple guy but Apple should've implemented RCS as soon as the telco's supported it.

To have easy compatibility with other devices. Why wouldn't they say yes?

> They still needed Telco support and Telco's have adopted the technology […]

My Telco, the largest national mobile carrier, still does not support RCS in 2025, which makes RCS and which mobile platform supports it and which does not a moot point for me.

Telcos do not have an incentive to upgrade the messaging infrastructure alone unless the upgrade comes as part of the core network upgrade, which is usually bound to the number increase in <whatever>G. Since the introduction of 4G, when mobile networks turned into dumb data pipes for everything, including voice, there is very little money to be made in the telco business. ISP's have suffered the same fate.

Have you tried using RCS when you're used to iMessage? It's terrible. Constant failures, weird behavior when changing towers between telcos - not to mention what happens when traveling internationally, where RCS turns on, off, on, off... for a day after arrival.

And of course there's no encryption standard.

Honestly, having used it now, I don't think they should have implemented it at all. It's terrible, unpredictable, breaks when changing networks…

I haven't had those problems with RCS on my Android phone over the last few years of using it.

But yes, the lack of encryption (outside of Google's tacked on version) is a problem.

Google is going outside the standard to prop you up on their phones. Apple can't do that and remain compliant with the standard.

I guess this is the 'power' of regulatory capture equal to banks? Are telcos invulnerable to innovation?

Google was already asked and they said no. They want to keep their non-standard RCS, both server-side and client-side and will not share it.

Or more specifically: it's a different product ("Google Messages") that just happens to be based on RCS.

They do have some partnerships with hardware manufacturers that ship Play on their devices, and they will preload Google Messages in there as well.

In essence, it doesn't exist in AOSP, and doesn't really live side-by-side with a normal messaging app (i.e. one that only does baseband native messaging), I wouldn't be surprised if the partnerships and preloading conditions state the manufacturer can't ship their own version (I think at least Samsung had to drop their own "Samsung Messages" app as reported in one of the reviews of a foldable display phone).

In a way, RCS made no difference, and whatever Google did was mostly just to compete with Meta (both FB Messenger and WhatsApp). Fun fact: Google Messages is closer to Matrix than it is to iMessage in terms of comparable technical features.

It's not the telcos. My family can't send my Android phone a text because Apple intercepts it and sends it as an iMessage instead.

I use it every day and across multiple countries in Asia Pacific with no issues.

Maybe its your phone going overseas and not working correctly.

RCS is supported by Apple for quite some time now, though?

That's a very malicious way to put it, and you could easily google how to "deregister" your previous apple phone's number.

Also, your family has total control on how to send it, they should just long-press the send button and choose to send as SMS.

On what device?

It's not malicious. It's the reality. I already have deregistered my phone number. Their contacts for me have no mention of my email address now. They are sending a message to a phone number, and it still sends it as an iMessage.

You aren't being humble and understanding how terrible and complex the situation is. And it is not our faults. It is Apple's.

And by the way, that de-registration process only exists because Apple was sued for this before.

That's not something they care about, as if they did, they would have already opened it.

Samsung S22+, Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 (aka everywhere but europe).

I buy an Esim for countries I visit, usually before I go. Add it before the flight, sometimes in the country.

List of countries I have worked with: Singapore (Roaming), Indonesia, Malaysia (I may have been roaming in Malaysia) I can't find the esim info, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand, India (Maybe i was roaming, can't remember).

Right. As I said in the other thread attached to GP, Google is actually hacking RCS in a non-standard way to make you work. Apple can't do that, and the RCS standard is basically half done, so it absolutely sucks on any devices that have to use the standard rather than Google's implementation.

Apple's RCS is not encrypted, nobodies RCS is encrypted unless you happen to be Google.

I assumed you meant google devices. Aka pixel.