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1957 points apokryptein | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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theptip ◴[] No.42910331[source]
> Why do they need to know my screen brightness, memory amount, current volume and if I'm wearing headphones?

This is clearly adding entropy to de-anonymize users between apps, rather than to add specificity to ad bids.

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1. shaftway ◴[] No.42937487[source]
I'm in this industry, and I have knowledge about this.

It's important to point out that it takes a long time for uptake of new versions of ad SDKs. The general assumption is that it takes about 6 months after release of a new version for 50% of ad traffic to come from that version or newer. Also, for every version you release, approximately 1% of traffic will never upgrade past that version.

In that kind of world, over-collecting data makes sense, especially if you think nobody will ever find out. Like total / and free disk space. There's no good reason to need those, right? But let's say an advertiser comes to you and says "we want to spend $1M / day to advertise our 10GB game, but only to devices that could install it." All of a sudden it's useful to know that a device only has 8GB of disk space, or only 100MB of free space.

So OK, if we didn't collect disk space, now it makes sense to collect disk space. Let's add it to the SDK. It takes a month or two to release a new version of the SDK. 3 months to get any meaningful traffic from it, and another 3 months to get up to 50% of your traffic. Assuming the ramps are linear, 4 months of 0%, and then 3 months of ramping to 50%, 30 days per month, you'll make $22.5M in the first 7 months. But if you had the logic in there to begin with, you'd have made $210M during the same time period. That makes it an easy choice for the business folks.

There are answers to this, but they all have drawbacks. You could limit data that ad agencies can collect. This reduces the value of ads. And agencies have learned that some data (like location) is low-value and high-risk, so they're removing the ability to supply it. I think it'd be better to support a model where ad code can be updated independently of the app. This way we could push out bug fixes faster, and could remove our just-in-case collection, but Apple has no signs that this is coming soon, and Google's answer has been such a shit-show that we aren't considering it viable over the next 4 years.

Edit: To address screen brightness specifically, it's a very rough proxy for age of the user.

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2. pavel_lishin ◴[] No.42938021[source]
> But let's say an advertiser comes to you and says "we want to spend $1M / day to advertise our 10GB game, but only to devices that could install it."

I don't want to call you a liar, but having seen ads that are presumably targeted at me, it feels like a total fiction to say that anyone is actually capable or interested in doing this.

I get advertisements for just absolute nonsense garbage that has no bearing on my life, and no bearing on anything that could have possibly been collected from my device.

The closest thing is that when I was in Mexico for a week, some of my podcast pre-roll ads were in Spanish. (Which, I should note, I do not speak fluently enough to even understand.) Even now, the occasional ad I'm served on a podcast is in Spanish.

And that's it. They saw that my IP came from Quintana Roo, and (somewhat reasonably) decided that I need to hear Spanish-language content. Even when I physically moved back to the United States.

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3. shaftway ◴[] No.42940306[source]
The mobile ad industry is weird, and has some perverse incentives. Good games don't advertise (they don't need to). Games that hook the users just enough that they can show them more ads tend to plow that money right back into advertising to get more users. Those are the ads you see 99% of the time, and they're not really targeted. They're just people who know that the average 15 second interstitial will net them $0.006 in revenue, so they bid for it at $0.005.

Are there whales that spend $1m / day in advertising. Absolutely, 100%. Are they running at all times? No. We typically see that kind of spend from a single advertiser around 30 days out of the year. They're short campaigns, typically around a launch of a big title, and they always try to target as narrowly as they can to maximize their impact.

You're right about it using IP geo-location to guess where you are and what language you want. We also use that to determine if we should show you the GDPR disclosures. But try looking at ads on a Xiaomi phone versus a Samsung and you'll see a different set of ads, because one of those purchasers tends to have more disposable income.