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1041 points mertbio | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.422s | source
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seanc ◴[] No.42841499[source]
I've been in high tech for 30 years, and I've been laid off many times, most often from failed start ups. I _strongly_ disagree with a fully cynical response of working only to contract, leveraging job offers for raises, etc.

There are a few reasons for this, but the most concrete is that your behavior in this job has an impact on getting the next one. The author is correct that exemplary performance will not save you from being laid off, but when layoffs come your next job often comes from contacts that you built up from the current job, or jobs before. If people know you are a standout contributor then you will be hired quickly into desirable roles. If people think you are a hired gun who only does the bare minimum that next role will be harder to find.

On top of that, carrying around bitterness and cynicism is just bad for you. Pride in good work and pleasure in having an impact on customers and coworkers is good for you. Sometimes that means making dumb business decisions like sacrificing an evening to a company that doesn't care, but IMO that sort of thing is worth it now and then.

To be sure, don't give your heart away to a company (I did that exactly once, never again) because a company will never love you back. But your co-workers will.

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sam0x17 ◴[] No.42842464[source]
> There are a few reasons for this, but the most concrete is that your behavior in this job has an impact on getting the next one

This is completely false. I literally haven't seen someone do a reference check once in the last 10 years. Early 2010s it was more common but this practice is dead. Now every company is a new slate. In fact, I've seen people repeatedly rewarded for jumping ship and build there career on that. Companies have stopped investing in devs, so why should devs not reciprocate?

And there are so many startups. More than you can count. There are more new ones every day than you could ever have time to apply to. They don't all have time to talk to each other.

Not saying it's not good to have pride in your work, but within reason, and within a framework of fairness and quid pro quo. Don't let people exploit you any more than you exploit them. Employment is 100% transactional and the moment you forget that is the moment you get taken advantage of.

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turbojet1321 ◴[] No.42849194[source]
It's not at all false IME, though I'm not in SV or the US. Most job want up-front references from at least 2 people, one of whom must be your current supervisor/boss (or someone else higher in the chain of command). You can occasionally get away without it, but it's difficult.
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scarface_74 ◴[] No.42852252[source]
No one is going to let you talk to your current manager and let them know you are looking for a job.

On the other hand, many companies don’t allow managers to give references.

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turbojet1321 ◴[] No.42858832[source]
> No one is going to let you talk to your current manager and let them know you are looking for a job.

What on earth do you mean? Who is going to stop me from talking to my manager?

Over my 20+ year career, in all-but one case my current manager has always been one of my referees and has known that I'm looking for other jobs.

Maybe this is a cultural thing. Here (Aus) references from colleagues are basically disregarded and all that prospective employers are interested in is referees from current and former managers.

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scarface_74 ◴[] No.42859393[source]
Typo, I meant no one is going to let you talk to their current manager.

There is no way I’m going to let my current job know that I’m looking for a job. That would be completely illegal advised.

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turbojet1321 ◴[] No.42859798[source]
It's a job; not a cult. People come and go. If I were working somewhere that made me feel like I couldn't leave without being super secretive about it, that would be a huge red flag.
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1. scarface_74 ◴[] No.42860305[source]
What do you think happens once a company knows you are looking for a job and then you don’t get the new job? Do you think they are going to give you the plumb assignments? Raises? Promotions?

If you think Australia is some utopia where the advice isn’t the same

https://www.seek.com.au/career-advice/article/should-you-tel...

https://www.sprintpeople.com.au/should-you-tell-your-boss-yo...

https://mane.com.au/news/how-your-boss-can-tell-you-are-look...

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2. turbojet1321 ◴[] No.42860733[source]
> What do you think happens once a company knows you are looking for a job and then you don’t get the new job?

Maybe it depends how useful you are. IME, they're grateful to have you say a while longer.

One of the guys I work with had accepted another job and was virtually out the door when the new job fell through. My company gladly welcomed him back, kept giving him challenging work and eventually promoting him.

A couple of months ago I told my boss and my boss's boss I was going to start looking for other jobs. They tried to see if there was something that'd make me stay, and when there wasn't, they were 100% supportive. If I said tomorrow "actually, I've had a change of heart, I'd like to stay" they'd be genuinely pleased. This has basically been the story my whole career.

Sure, if your boss is an arsehole they'll do arsehole things. My advice is not to work for arseholes.