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1041 points mertbio | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.206s | source
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seanc ◴[] No.42841499[source]
I've been in high tech for 30 years, and I've been laid off many times, most often from failed start ups. I _strongly_ disagree with a fully cynical response of working only to contract, leveraging job offers for raises, etc.

There are a few reasons for this, but the most concrete is that your behavior in this job has an impact on getting the next one. The author is correct that exemplary performance will not save you from being laid off, but when layoffs come your next job often comes from contacts that you built up from the current job, or jobs before. If people know you are a standout contributor then you will be hired quickly into desirable roles. If people think you are a hired gun who only does the bare minimum that next role will be harder to find.

On top of that, carrying around bitterness and cynicism is just bad for you. Pride in good work and pleasure in having an impact on customers and coworkers is good for you. Sometimes that means making dumb business decisions like sacrificing an evening to a company that doesn't care, but IMO that sort of thing is worth it now and then.

To be sure, don't give your heart away to a company (I did that exactly once, never again) because a company will never love you back. But your co-workers will.

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sam0x17 ◴[] No.42842464[source]
> There are a few reasons for this, but the most concrete is that your behavior in this job has an impact on getting the next one

This is completely false. I literally haven't seen someone do a reference check once in the last 10 years. Early 2010s it was more common but this practice is dead. Now every company is a new slate. In fact, I've seen people repeatedly rewarded for jumping ship and build there career on that. Companies have stopped investing in devs, so why should devs not reciprocate?

And there are so many startups. More than you can count. There are more new ones every day than you could ever have time to apply to. They don't all have time to talk to each other.

Not saying it's not good to have pride in your work, but within reason, and within a framework of fairness and quid pro quo. Don't let people exploit you any more than you exploit them. Employment is 100% transactional and the moment you forget that is the moment you get taken advantage of.

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krainboltgreene ◴[] No.42842950[source]
Can confirm 17 years in, past performance has never impacted future job prospects.
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samspot ◴[] No.42843353[source]
In 17 years you never had a past co-worker contact you about a job? That's confirmation that your past performance is affecting your future job prospects. And if you have had that kind of contact, then your statement above is a lie.
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whoknowsidont ◴[] No.42844450[source]
People are vastly overestimating network effects when you and your peers have similar experience and backgrounds. You'd likely get the job anyways, and the job probably isn't that great (in terms of upward momentum) to begin with.

As someone who's done hiring look at the people who have a list of good references. It's basically just the same position/level for _years_ because that's all your network can give or feels comfortable giving you (why would they give you a better job than they have).

It's a socioeconomic trap.

Just job hop. I promise you nothing else matters.

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1. ThrowawayR2 ◴[] No.42845923[source]
That advice is valid for dime-a-dozen coders working dime-a-dozen jobs, which, granted, is the majority of developers, but we're on Hacker News. The more specialized and deeply technical a role is, the smaller the pool of qualified people is and the really senior folks tend to know each other. Networking matters much much more in these smaller tight-knit communities.
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2. roguecoder ◴[] No.42846073[source]
We also get paid a lot more than the dime-a-dozen coders.

As is so often the case, optimizing for the short term comes at the cost of the long-term.

3. whoknowsidont ◴[] No.42846082[source]
It's the opposite? You don't need someone to vouch for you if you have a highly specialized skill set. I certainly haven't.

You might rely more on your network when you don't have any notable skill sets that set you apart from other developers.

Your claim isn't rational or practical?

This is what I mean, your attributing certain outcomes to an action that's effectively just a placebo effect. It doesn't actually matter.

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4. scarface_74 ◴[] No.42846536[source]
I had to look for a job both in 2023 and last year. For me it was both a network and specialized skills.

Specialized skills for me was cloud + app dev consulting and working at AWS (ProServe) and even more specialized was that I was a major contributor on a popular official open source “AWS Solution” in it niche and I had my own published open source solutions on AWS’s official GitHub site.

That led to two interviews and one offer within three weeks.

My network led to offers where a former manager submitted me to a position at the company that had acquired the company we worked for as a “staff architect” over the technical direction of all of their acquisitions. They gave me an offer.

My network also got me an offer from a former coworker who was a director of a F500 non tech company. He was going to make a position for me to be over the cloud architecture and migration strategies. He trusted me and he had just started working there.

Last year, my current job just fell in my lap, the internal recruiter reached out to out to me and that led to an offer.

I also had another former CTO throw a short term contract my way to tide me over.

But on the other hand, my plan B applications as a standard enterprise CRUD developer working remotely led to nothing.