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A layoff fundamentally changed how I perceive work

(mertbulan.com)
1041 points mertbio | 7 comments | 27 Jan 25 08:22 UTC | HN request time: 0.918s | source | bottom
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keiferski ◴[27 Jan 25 10:16 UTC] No.42839412[source]▶
The thing that bothers me most about layoffs due to “financial difficulties” is when you observe management wasting absurd amounts of money on something in one year, then announcing the following year that they have to make cuts to baseline, “low level” employees that don’t cost much at all.

This kind of managerial behavior seriously kills employee motivation, because it both communicates that 1) no one has job security and 2) that management is apparently incapable of managing money responsibly.

“Sorry, we spent $200k on consultants and conferences that accomplished nothing, so now we have to cut an employee making $40k” really erodes morale in ways that merely firing people doesn’t.

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mrweasel ◴[27 Jan 25 11:13 UTC] No.42839758[source]▶
> Sorry, we spent $200k on consultants

A former employer decided to freeze pay for a few years and later later start laying off people. During the pay freeze a colleague suggested that we might save a significant amount of money by hiring staff, rather than paying the large number of consultants we had hired. I think the ration was something like getting rid of two consultants would free enough money to hire three developers.

Managements take was that we should keep the consultants, because they where much easier to fire, two weeks notice, compared to four. So it was "better" to have consultants. My colleague pointed out that the majority of our consultants had been with us for 5+ years at that point and any cancelling of their contracts was probably more than 4 weeks out anyway. The subject was then promptly changed.

In fairness to management large scale layoffs did start 18 months later.

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1. scarface_74 ◴[27 Jan 25 13:31 UTC] No.42840942[source]▶
“A former employer decided to freeze pay for a few years and later later start laying off people”

Why would anyone stay at a company that had pay freezes for a few years. I would have been looking for another job the moment they announced them.

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2. bluGill ◴[27 Jan 25 14:09 UTC] No.42841276[source]▶
There are soft perks. I have a pension that counts how long I work for the company (I have no idea what the real terms of it are, but that simplification will do for this discussion). Long term than pension is - hopefully - worth far more than a couple years of no raises. Depending of course on how long I live - statistically I will die sometime between 60 and 100 with the most likely age being 80 - the longer I live the more than pension is worth, on the low end it is worthless.

That said, when the no raise hit I made my boss aware of my displeasure in that (As a senior engineer at the top of the pay scale I expect my raises should just match inflation, but no raise is a clear pay cut). I did find a transfer position in the company that resulted in a nice level promotion and thus raise, which is sometimes the best option.

Though your mileage will vary.

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3. EncomLab ◴[27 Jan 25 14:10 UTC] No.42841290[source]▶
Depending on your level and how much of your life is built around your job - it's not always as easy to leave as you might think.
4. scarface_74 ◴[27 Jan 25 14:26 UTC] No.42841435[source]▶
I forgot that pensions are still a thing in some places.

But when you calculate the the present value of the pension (ie discounted future cash flows), is the difference between staying and going and making more money elsewhere worth it? (serious question, not trying to be combative)

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5. Mountain_Skies ◴[27 Jan 25 15:45 UTC] No.42842315[source]▶
It depends on who you are and what market you are in. Many people in recent years have reported putting in over a thousand job applications and only netting a couple of interviews, none of which resulted in a job offer. But if you have a network into available jobs and can short cut all of the pipeline insanity going on now, making a jump would be smart. Then again, the type of companies that play these games typically don't have top notch talent in the first place. Many people might endure it because they fear they don't have other options.
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6. ryandrake ◴[27 Jan 25 16:10 UTC] No.42842593[source]▶
Exactly. Generally, when one company institutes pay freezes, they're probably also in a hiring freeze, along with the rest of the industry. Everything's nice and coordinated and they all use the same "macroeconomic environment" as the excuse. So an employee doesn't really have the option to just hop jobs, nobody else is hiring. Ironically, the best time to hop jobs is when you're getting raises because the economy is strong and everyone else is hiring.
7. bluGill ◴[27 Jan 25 17:20 UTC] No.42843377{3}[source]▶
> is the difference between staying and going and making more money elsewhere worth it?

That is a great question that is at least partially unknowable. You cannot discount future cash flows without knowing how long you will live and thus how much you should discount. Also things like inflation are unknowable.

As I said, I did leave. I stayed with the same company but found a different division. Which is the best of all worlds. I think, perhaps I could get a better offer elsewhere? If so would that better job still exist or would I now be laid off for months before finding a new job and thus destroying all the income gain from that new job?

There are a ton of unknowable factors. I can say it worked out okay for me so far, but that is about it.