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508 points zdw | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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klik99 ◴[] No.42743428[source]
"If you want to try it, be aware that it requires Intel Pentium 166MHz or above."

Made me laugh. Fun article, also really love the genre of "bored smart person goes too deep on something that the end result is obvious by common sense but proving it requires surprising amount of ingenuity and scrappiness"

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fishstock25 ◴[] No.42743514[source]
Totally agree.

And a great example that truth is complicated, expensive and uncomfortable. It's much easier to postulate an evil nation-state entity with a bad plan (without evidence) than to dig through the thicket of this article. It's much cheaper as well, certainly in terms of time and knowhow. And it's also much more comfortable to claim you're the victim and have uncovered a conspiracy, rather than realize this was just the result of the patchwork typical of engineering.

Kudos to the author.

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klik99 ◴[] No.42743569[source]
Yeah, the insane takes spread faster but it takes more time and resources to look into it than just come to conclusions early.

The worst thing is this creates an environment where most people are either completely credulous and buy into everything or completely incredulous and think everything is unfounded. It's just exhausting to have a healthy level of skepticism these days, and maybe 1 out of 1000 times (number source: from thin air) something that sounds insane actually has some truth to it.

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fishstock25 ◴[] No.42743711[source]
Yeah, for a substantial fraction of people, this case will stick to their minds as "oh the chinese .. again" It's both sad and scary. It was even submitted to HN. Flagged by now, but still. Many people won't have read this follow-up, especially since it doesn't come as a 1-sentence TL;DR..
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dgfitz ◴[] No.42744497[source]
Hmm, why is it sad and scary?
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fishstock25 ◴[] No.42746732[source]
It's sad because the HN crowd is technically maximally (?) literate and should be one of the last communities to even remotely buy the debunked story.

It's scary because if even those in the know are not resistant to such BS, who else is going to shield the general public from populism-fueled pushes to anarchy or worse? Detoriation of trust in media is one of the building blocks of that, and if even the experts of subject areas are fooled and/or don't care enough, all hope may be lost.

The silver lining though is that the HN submission got pushback in terms of comments and an eventual flagging.

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matheusmoreira ◴[] No.42747834[source]
In the absence of further information, I would totally choose to believe the story.

Corporations cannot be trusted. Proprietary software is bad enough but proprietary drivers is on a whole new level. You really have no idea what those things are doing unless you reverse engineer them.

Here are example of corporations essentially pwning your computer with their "justified and trustworthy" software:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/fs-labs-flight-simulator-pas...

Shipped a browser stealer to users and exfiltrated on an unencrypted channel the usernames and passwords of users they deemed to be "pirates".

https://old.reddit.com/r/Asmongold/comments/1cibw9r/valorant...

https://www.unknowncheats.me/forum/anti-cheat-bypass/634974-...

Screenshots your computer screen and exfiltrates the picture to their servers.

https://www.theregister.com/2016/09/23/capcom_street_fighter...

https://twitter.com/TheWack0lian/status/779397840762245124

https://fuzzysecurity.com/tutorials/28.html

https://github.com/FuzzySecurity/Capcom-Rootkit

The driver literally provided privilege escalation as a service for any user space executable.

As far as I'm concerned anyone who trusts these corporations with kernel level access to their computers is out of their minds. I don't trust firmware but at least it's contained in some isolated device.

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1. fishstock25 ◴[] No.42749567[source]
Sorry but you are blurring the lines between an actual malicious attack and a badly designed driver.

The first is what the original claim was, screaming "Russians!" and "Chinese!" at the same time with poor technical understa ding.

The second is what actually happened. It's no worse than inserting a CD-ROM and installing a driver. As bad as that is, and to be criticised in its own right, it's qualitatively different from the first.

Let's not muddy the waters by conflating the two and make the (IMO legitimate) criticism of one of them wade into a conspiracy theory about the other.

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2. dgfitz ◴[] No.42751195[source]
Didn’t china make the news recently because they hacked a handful of huge American telcos and cell providers?

Or the balloon that was hanging out for a while, that was a thing.

3. matheusmoreira ◴[] No.42768550[source]
There is no muddying of waters here. I posted an example of a corporation who thought it was alright to ship literal malware to their customers. They had every intention of stealing their credentials. They did it on purpose, because they thought they were police officers and wanted to "track down" some notorious "pirate". They displayed zero remorse, only regretting the fact they got caught. They actually thought they were justified in their endeavours.

There are no "conspiracy theories" here. It's not a theory, it's really happening. It's not a conspiracy, they don't even think what they're doing is wrong. Corporations see themselves as utterly justified in everything that they do in the name of profit. There are no limits they wouldn't cross. Nothing is sacred to them. Not morals, not you, and certainly not your computer and the personal information stored in it.

Trust them at your peril.