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Let's talk about AI and end-to-end encryption

(blog.cryptographyengineering.com)
174 points chmaynard | 5 comments | | HN request time: 0.401s | source
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rglover ◴[] No.42743397[source]
> We are about to face many hard questions about these systems, including some difficult questions about whether they will actually be working for us at all.

And how. I'd lean towards no. Where we're headed feels like XKEYSCORE on steroids. I'd love to take the positive, optimistic bent on this, but when you look at where we've been combined with the behavior of the people in charge of these systems (to be clear, not the researchers or engineers, but c-suite), hope of a neutral, privacy-first future seems limited.

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1. ActorNightly ◴[] No.42743680[source]
Given how politics and companies evolved, I actually trust those people in charge of XKEYSCORE systems more than ever. They may wear suits, but those people usually come from some military background, and have a sense of duty towards defending US, from threats both foreign and domestic, and historically have not really abused their powers no matter what the administration is. XKEYSCORE for example, wasn't really about hacking people, it was just about collecting mass metadata and building profiles, well within the legal system, and the blame should be on the companies that didn't provide privacy tools, because any big government could have build the same system.

Meanwhile, the anti anti-establishment Republican Party since 2016 who cried about big tech turned out to be the biggest pro-establishment fans, giving Elmo an office in a white house and Zucc bending a knee to avoid prosecution.

With these new systems, Id rather have smart people who only work in US defensive forces because of a sense of duty (considering they could get paid much more in the private sector) in charge.

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2. schmidtleonard ◴[] No.42743795[source]
> well within the legal system

It's not a search if we don't find anything, and it's not a seizure if we charge the money with the crime. These are court approved arguments, so they must be correct interpretations.

Point is: modern bureaucrats have proven that they are absolutely willing to abuse power, even in the best of times when there is no real domestic political strife.

3. saagarjha ◴[] No.42745055[source]
> historically have not really abused their powers

How would you know?

4. rglover ◴[] No.42745061[source]
Unfortunately, there are far too many examples of those very people abusing these tools. They shot the "sense of honor and duty" argument point blank just for allowing these things to exist in the first place.

If what you say is true, there would have been more than one honorable person to step up and say "hey, wait a minute." In the case of XKEYSCORE, there was precisely one, and he's basically been marooned in Russia for over a decade (and funny enough, XKEYSCORE still exists and is likely still utilized in the exact same way [1]).

Never underestimate the effect the threat of character destruction—and by extension, loss of income—will have on even the most honorable person's psyche. In situations involving matters like these, it's always far more likely that the "pressure" will be ratcheted up until the compliance (read: keep your mouth shut) rate is 100%.

[1] https://documents.pclob.gov/prod/Documents/OversightReport/e...

5. toss1 ◴[] No.42745435[source]
Good thoughts but as you point out about Elmo & Zucc, there is no way it stays with just the responsible people. It will also not be limited to protest. Just look at what Florida, Texas, and other states are doing about women's healthcare - any general agent worth its salt and with a bit of data will know about any woman's periods, pregnancies, miscarriages, and travel - which is being criminalized ....