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465 points impish9208 | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.725s | source
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rmccue ◴[] No.42669910[source]
This isn’t unexpected; I’ve been deactivated on Slack since very early in this dispute, and later banned from the issue tracker as well. I’ve been contributing for 20 years to the project, am a committer, and built several large parts of WordPress including the REST API.

Matt is banning anyone who speaks out at all, even when they agree with points he’s made. A large group of contributors felt they had to make an anonymous statement from fear of the same retribution I suffered: https://www.therepository.email/core-contributors-voice-conc...

(I am a less active direct contributor these days, so I’m still able to contribute even while blocked - but many people’s livelihoods depend on it, as sponsored contributors.)

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bachmeier ◴[] No.42670549[source]
Honest question from an outsider. WordPress is open source, so why hasn't the project been replaced with one that doesn't include him?
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troymc ◴[] No.42670601[source]
WordPress is a lot more than it's core code. There's a whole ecosystem of plugins, for example, and the usual place to share them (wordpress.org/plugins) is, essentially, controlled by one guy. It's not so easy to fork that.
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econ ◴[] No.42671504[source]
Then start with a new place to share plugins.
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Timon3 ◴[] No.42672367[source]
The first people to take this step will most likely have their plugins stolen, just as Matt did with ACF. This means taking this step is a massive danger for the first contributors - those with the highest impact are those with the most to lose.
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Ringz ◴[] No.42672449[source]
What do you exactly mean with „stolen“? Honest question.
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Timon3 ◴[] No.42673191[source]
Matt's company will fork your project, replace your original plugin listing and claim all your reviews as theirs, while also stopping you from distributing security updates to force people to switch to their fork.

Imagine if you make your money from selling your plugin, and Matt does this to you. Every WP plugin developer has to live in fear of this happening at any moment, and you can be certain it will happen if you show any kind of resistance towards Matt.

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gitaarik ◴[] No.42684311{4}[source]
Yeah you mean he takes control of the plugin on WordPress.org? But if we all move to a different domain, you don't have that problem?

Only problem is that existing WP installations would need to be manually patched to the new domain name. As long as users don't do that they'll still be in Matt's control.

But yeah, can't we create some bots that scan the internet for WP sites and send the webmasters an email informing the corruption going on inside WP and the option for them to move to the new community.

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Timon3 ◴[] No.42685416[source]
If you could move all WP plugins & plugin developers to a different domain at once, sure, there's no problem! But unless you have a magic wand, this won't happen. Then the question is: can you move enough at once to clear the network effect?

If you cannot do that, every developer that moved with you potentially just lost their livelihood. That's the crux of it. There's no technical issue to solve here, it's purely a social and economical one.

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gitaarik ◴[] No.42690381[source]
Well it can still go gradually. First move the plugins, one by one. Then update the WP sourcecode to the new domain. Then update existing installations.
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Timon3 ◴[] No.42694717[source]
You are still ignoring the point I've brought up repeatedly: those who move first have the most to lose.

You act like moving gradually has no danger for the plugin authors. You've moved 5% of plugins over. Whoops, Matt stole their listings, and since you didn't reach critical mass nobody uses your WP fork which points to your new plugin directory.

You've just wiped out the livelihoods of 5% of plugin developers.

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1. gitaarik ◴[] No.42695144[source]
I don't understand, you mean in the case that most people don't patch their WordPress installation, and keep getting updates from WordPress.org?

You have to move all installations to the new domain, but you don't have to do that in 1 day. You can create bots scanning the internet for WP installations and mail the webmaster and inform them about the corruption at WordPress and give them info how to patch their instance.

Matt would have to clone all the plugins and keep them up to date by copying the plugins from the new domain. But he would be risking a lawsuit for each plugin he does this with. Seems like a lot of work with a lot of risk.

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2. Timon3 ◴[] No.42695602[source]
> You have to move all installations to the new domain, but you don't have to do that in 1 day.

YES, YOU DO! At least you have to move the majority of all installations day 1. I don't know why you keep repeating this.

Matt stealing a plugin isn't a theoretical issue. He has already done it. It has happened. I'm not constructing some unlikely scenario, I'm telling you what already occurred. WP plugins are GPL licensed, so there's no legal risk if he doesn't behave incredibly stupidly.

You keep throwing technical solutions against a social and economical issue. It doesn't work. There's no technical solution here.

Every plugin you move gradually is a livelihood you potentially destroyed. Can you at least acknowledge this?

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3. gitaarik ◴[] No.42695992[source]
Oh yeah ok, I guess I did forget a bit the important detail that most WP plugin developers are making money from a subscription plan on the WordPress.org site. So yeah their income is basically tied to that domain name.

Yeah ok, that sucks pretty hard.

Ok, then what about DDOSing wp.org during the entire transition? Just an idea, maybe a bit crazy.