←back to thread

Matt Mullenweg deactivates WordPress accounts of contributors planning a fork

(techcrunch.com)
465 points impish9208 | 5 comments | 11 Jan 25 18:14 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
rmccue ◴[11 Jan 25 23:44 UTC] No.42669910[source]▶
This isn’t unexpected; I’ve been deactivated on Slack since very early in this dispute, and later banned from the issue tracker as well. I’ve been contributing for 20 years to the project, am a committer, and built several large parts of WordPress including the REST API.

Matt is banning anyone who speaks out at all, even when they agree with points he’s made. A large group of contributors felt they had to make an anonymous statement from fear of the same retribution I suffered: https://www.therepository.email/core-contributors-voice-conc...

(I am a less active direct contributor these days, so I’m still able to contribute even while blocked - but many people’s livelihoods depend on it, as sponsored contributors.)

replies(6): >>42670355 #>>42670549 #>>42671273 #>>42672607 #>>42672957 #>>42673573 #
bachmeier ◴[12 Jan 25 01:52 UTC] No.42670549[source]▶
Honest question from an outsider. WordPress is open source, so why hasn't the project been replaced with one that doesn't include him?
replies(3): >>42670594 #>>42670595 #>>42670601 #
troymc ◴[12 Jan 25 02:02 UTC] No.42670601[source]▶
WordPress is a lot more than it's core code. There's a whole ecosystem of plugins, for example, and the usual place to share them (wordpress.org/plugins) is, essentially, controlled by one guy. It's not so easy to fork that.
replies(1): >>42671504 #
econ ◴[12 Jan 25 05:24 UTC] No.42671504[source]▶
Then start with a new place to share plugins.
replies(2): >>42672316 #>>42672367 #
Timon3 ◴[12 Jan 25 09:39 UTC] No.42672367[source]▶
The first people to take this step will most likely have their plugins stolen, just as Matt did with ACF. This means taking this step is a massive danger for the first contributors - those with the highest impact are those with the most to lose.
replies(2): >>42672449 #>>42680454 #
Ringz ◴[12 Jan 25 10:00 UTC] No.42672449[source]▶
What do you exactly mean with „stolen“? Honest question.
replies(2): >>42672582 #>>42673191 #
Timon3 ◴[12 Jan 25 12:46 UTC] No.42673191[source]▶
Matt's company will fork your project, replace your original plugin listing and claim all your reviews as theirs, while also stopping you from distributing security updates to force people to switch to their fork.

Imagine if you make your money from selling your plugin, and Matt does this to you. Every WP plugin developer has to live in fear of this happening at any moment, and you can be certain it will happen if you show any kind of resistance towards Matt.

replies(2): >>42675683 #>>42684311 #
mysidia11 ◴[12 Jan 25 18:38 UTC] No.42675683[source]▶
I'd suggest guerilla-scraping the entire plugin site under the radar, unbeknownst to them. Go live with a new site that simply has all the same directory data as the existing site and additional mirror site links for each plugin, And create a process for plugin authors to claim the existing page in the directory.

Matt may be able to fork plugins, but they won't be able to fork every single plugin in the directory, as it isn't very feasible.

It also would then not necessarily be obvious to Matt which plugin listings in the new directory have been claimed, and which plugins are being updated by other people from the community.

replies(2): >>42676821 #>>42679070 #
Timon3 ◴[12 Jan 25 20:52 UTC] No.42676821[source]▶
Just scraping the site isn't quite enough. You'd also have to fork Wordpress to be able to use a plugin directory not under Matt's control, which is important for the average admin to quickly patch security-relevant issues.

But even when you do that, I'd expect him to just give people an ultimatum - either "officially" host on his plugin directory, or others, but not on both. You'd have to reach critical mass pretty much immediately, or Matt can bully the ecosystem into compliance.

replies(1): >>42679097 #
1. econ ◴[13 Jan 25 01:38 UTC] No.42679097[source]▶
If that mass doesn't accumulate fast enough he is right and people want him to run things the way he does. It might look weird to me or others, they might even say the opposite but only ones actions count.
replies(1): >>42681118 #
2. Timon3 ◴[13 Jan 25 07:55 UTC] No.42681118[source]▶
No, that's not how consent and preferences work. If someone has power over a group of individuals, and that group doesn't act due to threats, it's not confirming that they want to be controlled by that someone.
replies(1): >>42683329 #
3. econ ◴[13 Jan 25 13:44 UTC] No.42683329[source]▶
They are to blame for his power. If someone else decided the time to act is now then they must choose now. The default is to not change anything.

I may ignore what people say and look what they do. I do this to make people angry :-)

What is the alternative? To tell people how sad it is they can't possibly anything ever? Why bother? Does more harm than good.

replies(1): >>42685331 #
4. Timon3 ◴[13 Jan 25 16:38 UTC] No.42685331{3}[source]▶
You're completely ignoring that the individuals have a high risk when doing this, even more so when they are the first to take this step. It can often happen that individuals make choices to minimize risk, which lead to increased risk for the whole group. It's just game theory. But it sounds like you're ignoring this deliberately to make people angry, so I'll leave you with one last thought:

You're legitimizing Matt's bullying (by telling people "well, if you don't act counter to game theory and deliberately worsen your own standing, you obviously want to be bullied!") and thus actively telling people "they can't possibly anything ever". What you're doing does far more harm than good.

replies(1): >>42694427 #
5. econ ◴[14 Jan 25 06:39 UTC] No.42694427{4}[source]▶
I suppose the only advice one can give are things one would do in that situation.

I've build many great popular things on other people's turf/platforms of which nothing remains.

I have a wp blog too since the beginning! We tried to rebuild our lost communities there. Then akismet started banning people for posting comments with links and I discovered it has no appeal mechanism.

Meet the new boss..