Just refactor SerenityOS, take its DE and make it a Wayland compositor, stop reinventing the wheel. Ladybird realized this, why can't SerenityOS do the same?
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Funnily enough SerenityOS's WindowServer is actually more usable than Wayland, so that would be a downgrade.
I find that very difficult to believe, how exactly is it more usable? Serenity would benefit a lot sitting on top of a Linux kernel in my opinion.
SerenityOS has a clear goal as a hobbyist from-scratch OS with a monolithic code-base where the entire source code is contained within a single Mono repo where the entire Software is built with the same programming language and tool chain and the entire OS and core Apps can be changed from a single repo without needing to rely on 3rd Party upstream packages. This is a great environment to rapidly prototype new UI features, like it was the first time I saw an OS able to open UI folders and Applications from `ls` output in a terminal.
It's great that an OS with a cohesive code-base like this exists, but it's only targeted for the hobbyist developers building the OS to use and has no plans on becoming an OS for mainstream adoption.
No, it would be a Wayland compositor, which could be made to run on Linux or the BSDs.
> This is a great environment to rapidly prototype new UI features, like it was the first time I saw an OS able to open UI folders and Applications from `ls` output in a terminal.
There's nothing special about this, Enlightenment did it on Linux many years before Serenity even existed.
https://www.enlightenment.org/about-terminology.md
> but it's only targeted for the hobbyist developers building the OS to use and has no plans on becoming an OS for mainstream adoption.
It's such a shame because it could be a great Wayland compositor, and the features you mention could be made to work as a desktop environment.
Why spend years reinventing the wheel when others already did the hard work that they won't be able to replicate in the first place?
It's their time, sure. And they can do wherever they want but it's still wasted effort, whether people admit it or not.
Not even the BSDs are able to compete with Linux on driver's support, what makes people think SerenityOS could?
I also hardly doubt the SerenityOS people don't have any expectations to get at least some adoption, they're wasting their time with their current strategy.
You clearly haven't spend any time learning about the SerenityOS project and don't seem to have any clue about why Andreas started SerenityOS in the first place since your suggestions completely contradict why it was created.
Why are you suggesting using 3rd Party software when the entire purpose of SerenityOS is to not use any external software and build everything from scratch? The goal isn't to save time by reusing existing software, of course they know that using existing software would save time recreating it, but that was never the point. They're creating an entirely new OS from the ground up.
Andreas has created 100s of hours of YouTube content showing building different parts of SerenityOS, which IMO is one of the best resources for showing how to build different parts of an OS from scratch [1].
> I also hardly doubt the SerenityOS people don't have any expectations to get at least some adoption, they're wasting their time with their current strategy.
Since you don't seem to know anything about SerenityOS your doubts and thoughts of its developers are meaningless, the goals and purpose of SerenityOS have been well documented. It was never meant to be an OS for mainstream adoption, just an OS by hackers for hackers. They've built great software and a great community where everyone gets to work on whatever parts they're interested in and have fun being apart of and contributing to a shared creation of work together - that's not wasting time.
Am I not allowed to say anything anymore? I know what SerenityOS is and what it's trying to do, I just think it's unreasonable and a waste of effort.
Andreas himself changed his mind about reusing third party libraries in Ladybird, SerenityOS should do the same.
I know you don't care to read about things you comment on and like to throw uninformative recommendations about what people working on a project should do, that directly contradicts the goal of the project and why developers started hacking on it in the first place. Seriously, how do you expect your low effort backseat comments to be taken? You don't think the very capable OS developers already know that reusing existing Software takes less time than creating it? Or maybe you're missing some context on the project your commenting on, like its entire purpose for being?
Andreas did not change his mind about SerenityOS which is still a hobby OS project for Hackers as it has always been. He just moved on to work on Ladybird full-time to compete as a mainstream browser alternative to Blink/WebKit which has completely different goals to SerenityOS which is no longer a supported target since it incorporates 3rd Party libraries.
He did, how much do you want to bet that if he were to do it all over again he would go straight to the browser work and skip the OS project?
That's why he doesn't even talk about it anymore, he even removed it as a target in Ladybird.
It's clear that he got burned by his own decisions.
I don't care what you think about me or not, I don't hate SerenityOS and I wish that project well, but I think they should reconsider their stance on third party libraries.
One of SerenityOS Apps (Ladybird) grew larger than SerenityOS itself which he's devoted the last couple of years to, trying the impossible feat of creating a modern web browser with a skeleton crew but yet still manages to attract idiotic, self-righteous low effort commentary like this. Andreas has already given the world plenty, owes nothing to me or you or anyone else, especially with what he devotes his future time to.
You also say that I'm entitled, ok let's see who's the one crying on X about the Linux Foundation funding other projects than his own:
https://x.com/awesomekling/status/1877438066190622874#m
Look, it's fine if you like him and his projects, I don't because I know it's all about the money, he should have stayed working at Apple.
And again: I'm not going to spend my time nor resources to support someone who already displayed signs of betrayal to his community.
The SerenityOS community was fractured, all because of his selfish ambitions.
Apparently this tweet qualifies as "Crying on X":
> Linux Foundation Announces the Launch of "Supporters of Chromium-Based Browsers" > 1) Huh
Where he's asking why would the Linux Foundation throw their support behind further entrenching a Monopolistic browser? A browser that even the US Govt wants to break-up Google given the monopolistic control they have over it and the Web. The motivations of the initiative are clear in the announcement which says is being funded by Google, Meta, Microsoft, and Opera - i.e. mega tech corps that benefit from Chromium. So the question is really asking why is the Linux Foundation throwing their brand behind further entrenching a monopoly controlled technology at the expense of supporting more diversity in OSS browser engines? You're really cherry picking with this, I'm sure Andreas had done many unfavorable things, but asking why the Linux Foundation is involved in a counter intuitive initiative isn't one of them.
> I know it's all about the money, he should have stayed working at Apple.
Great more false confidence and proclamations of what someone's life is about, apparently in addition to working on projects you want, he should also work for employers you want to as well.
> who already displayed signs of betrayal to his community. > The SerenityOS community was fractured, all because of his selfish ambitions.
Your gross entitlement is apparently someone else's betrayal of their previous OSS efforts, where apparently he should've spent the rest of his life being a slave to his previous OSS projects you want them to, that he's already given so much time to, but you aren't even bothered to learn anything about before passing judgement on. Everyone is entitled to their views, but yours are so misguided that you need some serious self-awareness that "Open Source is Not About You" [1] before spreading more of your toxic entitlement.
> And again: I'm not going to spend my time nor resources to support someone who already displayed signs of betrayal to his community.
No one is asking you to. But why do you think you should be entitled to what other projects, people and their communities should be doing now and in the future?
The SerenityOS project or community wouldn't exist and continues to move forward without him, receiving multiple commits a day with the latest a few minutes ago. Which is a huge accomplishment for any OSS project to continue to improve without their founder, not something anyone should be chastised for.
[1] https://gist.github.com/richhickey/1563cddea1002958f96e7ba95...
Exactly, that's why I support Free Software, not "Open Source".
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.en....
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....