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A 10-Year Battery for AirTag

(www.elevationlab.com)
672 points dmd | 28 comments | | HN request time: 0.853s | source | bottom
1. jerlam ◴[] No.42456019[source]
Not a bad price, but it does require an existing Airtag.

Ten years is a very long time in tech. I wouldn't be confident that the Airtag protocol will be functioning in 2035, and there are already rumors of a new Airtag and possibly a newer protocol coming up.

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2. spiderfarmer ◴[] No.42459310[source]
If Apple kills existing Airtags any time soon they effectively kill the product line. So they won’t.
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3. minton ◴[] No.42460768[source]
This might underestimate Apple consumerism (I include myself in that).
4. smileybarry ◴[] No.42462423[source]
AirTags use the same Find My protocol that's been out for years before them, I doubt Apple will cut them off. They also get regular software updates, so the hardware should last that.
5. roger_ ◴[] No.42464610[source]
> I wouldn't be confident that the Airtag protocol will be functioning in 2035

I'd agree if it were any company other than Apple. And if Apple goes under by 2035 then AirTags will be the least of our concern.

6. tpetry ◴[] No.42464695[source]
Its really easy for them, and this also in line how they would operate:

Add a new Airtag v2 protocol to the next iPhone and sell new Airtags only using that protocol. Why should you buy them? They could have different improvements you would like.

Start deprecating Airtag v1 in 3-4 years - and only sell new ones. There are now 3-4 iPhone generations that can handle the new version.

The next iPhone in 6-7 years doesn't support Airtags v1 anymore as it is obsolete now for many years.

Voila, they killed Airtags v1 in less than 10 years without killing the entire product line by switching to a new version. Is that unrealistic? No, thats their normal way how they deprecate stuff. It still works but only with old hardware or by not getting new updates anymore (iOS, macOS).

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7. chadash ◴[] No.42464822[source]
> Ten years is a very long time in tech.

Well, they certainly _might_ be functioning in ten years from now. Conservatively, you get 5 years of use out of this, which isn't bad for $15-20, depending on your use case.

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8. BudaDude ◴[] No.42464841{3}[source]
I would agree with you if this was a main line product (iPad, Macs, iPhone). You could argue the Apple Watch is a main line product as well.

But this is an accessory line. Apple is pretty good at keeping accessories working for as long as possible. AirPods v1 still work. A Magic Mouse bought 10 years ago still works as long as the battery isn't dead.

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9. samatman ◴[] No.42464911{3}[source]
This is not at all in line with how Apple operates, it's diametrically opposed to it in fact.

I suppose you could contradict me by providing a list of the products Apple has deprecated this way.

Can you?

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10. hatsix ◴[] No.42465266{4}[source]
It's exactly how Apple operates. The last Apple device with Firewire was produced in 2012, though it was sold for several more years. MacOS 13 (2022) dropped the Firewire CoreAudio driver (as well as other, more niche support for Firewire). So... exactly 10 years.

If you're going to put me in a bucket, I'd be in the "Apple Hater" bucket, but I honestly think that the way that they do this is fine. It would have been better if they had jumped on the USB bandwagon earlier, they certainly love to build their own solutions that are incompatible with where the rest of the industry (see also, their proprietary wireless audio, their proprietary bluetooth codec, their proprietary thunderbolt extensions, their proprietary magsafe power connectors, their proprietary Lightning cable/connector, their forking of webkit off of khtml, their changes to webkit that are part of Safari but haven't been pushed upstream to webkit)

Anyways, this is exactly their MO and it's not bad. Apple doesn't need you to contradict everything people say about Apple.

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11. samatman ◴[] No.42465389{5}[source]
Apple sold the first widely-available computer with USB connections, the iMac G3.

> To replace the removed ports, the iMac has Universal Serial Bus (USB) ports, which were faster and cheaper than Apple Desktop Bus and serial ports but were very new—the standard was not finalized until after the iMac's release—and unsupported by any third-party Mac peripheral.

  - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3#Design
It would not be possible for them to jump on a bandwagon they started any earlier than they did.

> The last Apple device with Firewire was produced in 2012

Thunderbolt supports the Firewire protocol in the transport layer. So this means that people who need to support a Firewire device need a dongle now. Apple used to sell the adapter, apparently it's been discontinued, but they're still manufactured by third parties, and the originals available on the secondhand market. Which, given that Firewire is dead and buried, and no one is making new Firewire stuff, is also where you'd need to go to get something expecting Firewire to begin with.

I do not see this as the problem you seem to.

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12. withinboredom ◴[] No.42465417{4}[source]
actually ... it doesn't. Well, you can't use them with a phone anymore because they did exactly as described. The new mice work fine though.
13. joshstrange ◴[] No.42465444{5}[source]
I might be missing something but Apple was the first (major) company to ship USB 1.1 in 1998 on the iMac. It was a big deal IIRC also because they removed the floppy drive at the same time.

But maybe you are talking about something else?

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14. duskwuff ◴[] No.42465445{6}[source]
> Apple sold the first widely-available computer with USB connections, the iMac G3.

They were also, simultaneously, the first manufacturer to really go all-in on USB. Some PC manufacturers at the time were including one or two USB ports on their systems, but relied on legacy ports (PS/2, serial, parallel, etc) for most functionality. Their USB ports were mostly a show of "look, we have the new thing" - much in the same way that modern PC motherboards may have a single USB-C port on the back, actually.

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15. jonhohle ◴[] No.42465586[source]
I replace AirTag batteries every 6 months to be safe, so $15 (plus batteries) isn’t significantly more expensive over 5 years.
16. ◴[] No.42465795[source]
17. makeitdouble ◴[] No.42467600[source]
If the product line stops making sense or enough money they'll kill it. They're no Google, but it won't be the first product line that goes belly up.

The best scenario would be an industry standard that is widely more interesting than AirTags and works around the current compromises, letting Apple expand support to a wider audience. E.g. if the stalking problem had an elegant solution.

18. mmahemoff ◴[] No.42467646{5}[source]
You’re right Apple has a playbook of changing port types every few years, but there are adaptors available. The devices themselves still work, just that Apple knows they can use this one trick to encourage some customers to upgrade.

With wireless devices, protocol changes would brick the device, so they’d be less likely to do it so quickly. As far as I know, Apple haven’t announced any plans to deprecate the original Airpods, which came out 8 years ago and use some custom protocols alongside vanilla Bluetooth.

Maybe in the future they’ll start deprecating parts of the protocol (“in order to save your phone’s battery life” or something), but I don’t believe they have so far.

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19. tonygiorgio ◴[] No.42467701{3}[source]
Doing a v2 isn’t the same as “killing AirTags.” V2 could even have the same exact size and it would still be useful, just swap out. Worst case, buy a v1 to v2 adapter if it’s smaller, or hell, just buy another $20 10 year battery pack. If you’re protecting $10k equipment, who cares about spending $20. Piece of mind and durability matters a lot.
20. csomar ◴[] No.42468101[source]
While Apple products become obsolete, they are not exactly killed. i.e. your 15 year old macbook still functions but is limited. The air tag is a bit different because deprecating the protocol essentially kills it completely.

I highly doubt they do that unless they are remove airtags completely from their product line.

21. jychang ◴[] No.42469178{6}[source]
I don't know if you were around in ~2005 ish, but for the longest time Apple backed Firewire 400/800 over USB2.0, because it was faster. Apple supported USB, of course, but it was clear that Firewire was the connector of choice.
22. myself248 ◴[] No.42471926{7}[source]
I interpreted it precisely the opposite. PC mobos were like "Look, you can use the new things if you have any, but we're not gonna make you throw out your PS/2 peripherals that you know and love, or even buy adapters for them, because all that stuff, and the support circuitry for it on the mobo, all works just fine."

The all-in approach required a forklift upgrade and generated a ton of e-waste.

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23. myself248 ◴[] No.42471930{6}[source]
Apple is to charging ports as Sony is to mass storage media.
24. ShakataGaNai ◴[] No.42473777[source]
They are coming up on 4 years old. I have quite a number of them and do have to replace batteries frequently enough that it can get annoying.

I'm sure Apple will innovate and come up with something newer/better/etc at some point. But it's unlikely the gen1 devices will go away anytime soon. Even if the real life is only... 5 years, that still saves a number of battery changes for devices that maybe you don't want to deal with regularly.

And with the fact that Apple had enough demand to increase the limit from 16 to 32 per account ( https://9to5mac.com/2024/01/12/airtag-limit/ ). Clearly people have bought into the ecosystem in a big way. 30 Airtags * $25 each is $750. I don't think they'll decommission the gen1 system anytime soon with that much investment. Plus Apple is surprisingly good at supporting their hardware for a reasonable amount of time. The iPhone XR from 2018 is still supported by iOS 18.

25. duskwuff ◴[] No.42473981{8}[source]
> The all-in approach required a forklift upgrade and generated a ton of e-waste.

It really wasn't that bad. I lived through it.

The iMac was pitched as an entry-level Internet computer for new computer users. Many buyers didn't have a computer at all previous to purchasing an iMac, or only had one which was old enough that its accessories would have been irrelevant (e.g. an external modem). Probably the most common USB accessory purchase was external floppy drives - and a lot of users ended up discarding those after they realized they weren't using them.

26. hatsix ◴[] No.42476245{6}[source]
Specific to my comment, Apple removed code that supports audio over Firewire. It doesn't matter if adapters are available, cameras and microphones that used Firewire no longer work on MacOS 13+.

Again, it had a long run, I'm not upset that they "only" supported it for 10 years... but let's be very clear, the devices don't work. Also, this is them removing support for a protocol that is part of the base MacOS, so it's exactly like what will eventually happen when Apple stops supporting the original Airpods protocols.

I don't think that's any time soon, and if you're in the Apple ecosystem, go ham... let's just be very clear about the comparisons here.

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27. hatsix ◴[] No.42476273{6}[source]
Maybe you missed the part where I said "this is fine". I don't have a problem with what they're doing, I have a problem with people saying that Apple doesn't do something that they very clearly do.

Also, I thought I was fairly clear in my comment, but Apple removed support in MacOS 13 for Firewire Audio... so it doesn't matter what kind of dongles you have, as soon as you update to 13, your firewire camera no longer works.

It's weird that Apple is removing driver-level support for a protocol. It's unexpected. It's also a dead tech that nobody cares about. The person I was responding to wanted an example of accessories that Apple stopped supporting, and "Anything with Firewire Audio" falls into that category. It is completely, utterly unusable with stock MacOS 13, though it's likely that some people have found a way to put it back in.

28. MikeRichardson ◴[] No.42480776{7}[source]
FireWire hard drives still work fine though. (FireWire 800 to Thunderbolt adapter, connected to a Thunderbolt to TB3 adapter).

Why support the adapter and hard drives, but not audio devices?

(What else used FireWire besides mass storage, audio stuff, the original iSight, and Time Warner Cable boxes from 2005?)