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412 points tafda | 5 comments | | HN request time: 1.317s | source
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csa ◴[] No.42247695[source]
It’s not just California, but California may be one of the more egregious state neglecters.

The push at the state level for policies that focus on equality of outcomes over equality of opportunities will not end well for the gifted and talented communities.

Whenever I hear these people talk about their policies, I can’t help but recall Harrison Bergeron.

Focusing on equality of outcomes in a society that structurally does not afford equality of opportunities is a fool’s game that ends with Bergeron-esque levels of absurdity.

Imho, the only viable/main solution is to acknowledge that we all aren’t equal, we don’t all have access to the same opportunities, but as a country we can implement policies that lessen the imbalance.

Head Start is a good example.

Well-run gifted and talented programs in schools are also good examples.

Killing truly progressive programs for the purpose of virtue signaling is a loss for society.

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philipov ◴[] No.42247806[source]
While I may have sympathy for your more substantive points, anytime I hear someone mention virtue signalling, it makes it sound like they're virtue signalling. Better to just not bring up that dog whistle.
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exe34 ◴[] No.42247920[source]
it's a perfectly good phrase to describe what it says. if that bothers you, maybe you need to ask yourself why.
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lern_too_spel ◴[] No.42247978[source]
In my experience, people who use the term "virtue signalling" don't understand the problems that the supposed virtue signalers are trying to solve and simply use the term as a cheap dismissal of their policies. If the policies are bad, explain why they're bad. Don't just say that people putting the 10 Commandments in schools are virtue signalling.
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exe34 ◴[] No.42249346[source]
Or indeed, it's possible that neither you nor the virtue signallers understand why they're doing it.
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aspenmayer ◴[] No.42250575[source]
Regardless of whether or not either interlocutor understands the term, using the term virtue signaling itself is self-defeating for both parties for different reasons.

For the one hearing it, it’s a red herring, and for the one saying it, it’s a dog whistle. For the third party person reading the interaction without or with lesser context, it’s a thought-terminating cliche.

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1. exe34 ◴[] No.42255158[source]
> For the third party person reading the interaction without or with lesser context, it’s a thought-terminating cliche.

if one's thought is so easily terminated, maybe there wasn't as much thought as one might think to begin with.

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2. ◴[] No.42259077[source]
3. aspenmayer ◴[] No.42262316[source]
If good faith weren't a prerequisite for reasoned debate, perhaps.
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4. exe34 ◴[] No.42264100[source]
remember, we're talking about somebody getting triggered by the words "virtue-signalling", so I think good faith left the conversation a few stops back.
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5. aspenmayer ◴[] No.42280352{3}[source]
This is part of why it’s a bad term - its meaning is almost impossible to understand even in context because it means different things to different people and people read a lot into it. It’s kind of overloaded and seems like flamebait to me, I guess.

Some interesting bits here as well (italics added for emphasis):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

> However, some argue that these expressions of outrage or moral alignment may reflect genuine concern, and that accusing others of virtue signalling can itself be a form of signalling. This has led to the coining of a related concept, vice signalling, which refers to the public promotion of negative or controversial views to appear tough, pragmatic, or rebellious, often for political or social capital.

I would add on and argue that using the term virtue signaling is itself an example of virtue signaling.