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Boeing overcharged the U.S. Air Force 8,000% above market for soap dispensers

(www.reuters.com)
152 points lr0 | 10 comments | 21 Nov 24 04:19 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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cjensen ◴[21 Nov 24 06:40 UTC] No.42201750[source]▶
The US has 222 C-17 Aircraft. A single C-17 costs over $300 million.

If you ask Boeing for soap dispenser parts for these, what should they cost? Boeing charged $149,072 for the dispensers. That's $671 per plane. Is that too much?

If you had to make these dispensers, make sure they conform to rules for aircraft parts and Air Force parts, provide formal responses to bids, etc., how much could you make them for?

It seems high to me. The article says 8000%, which is less than $10 per plane. So while it seems high, it's definitely not 8000% high.

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edm0nd ◴[21 Nov 24 07:01 UTC] No.42201837[source]▶
What about designing the plane to use a common soap dispenser that doesnt cost $150k?

Why not just use existing solutions like a soap dispenser that is found on common commercial passenger planes that Boeing already has and makes?

There is no world where a simple soap dispenser is $150k.

They seemingly design them like this so they can bilk the US government aka tax payers with these absurd prices for simple objects.

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1. arcticbull ◴[21 Nov 24 07:38 UTC] No.42202002[source]▶
I mean it doesn't cost $157K it costs $671. They ordered a couple hundred of them.

This one from CB2 is $40 and it doesn't conform to FAA rules and it's not MIL-SPEC. [1]

I suspect if I wanted a limited run of soap dispensers, I was only willing to buy 300 made-to-order, tested and conformant to niche military specifications and aviation specifications, I'd probably end up paying a decent chunk more than CB2.

How much does the entertainment system in your car cost vs an iPad? Is that a rip-off, or is it a niche, custom part that has to be made from automotive grade components?

How much does the soap dispenser cost in a 777 bathroom? That's the real point of comparison, not CB2.

[1] https://www.cb2.com/ramsey-calacatta-gold-marble-soap-pump/s...

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2. oivey ◴[21 Nov 24 08:07 UTC] No.42202141[source]▶
Your example is a marble soap dispenser. Did you go on Google and search for the most expensive one you could find?
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3. arcticbull ◴[21 Nov 24 08:22 UTC] No.42202213[source]▶
I did, yes, lol. I mean the most expensive one on sale at CB2 which is kind of a mid-range home furnishings store. I'm confident I can find a soap dispenser that costs more than $671 for home use, though.

[edit] Here you go, just under $845. I present you the Labrazel Discus Brown Pump Dispenser available at Nieman's. Only $77 per month thanks to the magic of Affirm. Good news is thanks to Black Friday you get a $125 gift card. Still not MIL-SPEC though.

https://www.neimanmarcus.com/p/labrazel-discus-brown-pump-di...

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4. Y_Y ◴[21 Nov 24 09:08 UTC] No.42202442{3}[source]▶
> The finest natural materials and the most exceptional quality of craftsmanship converge at Labrazel due to a singular focus—the design and creation of luxury accessories for the bath

Maybe the Pentagon should check these guys out.

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5. ◴[21 Nov 24 09:24 UTC] No.42202515{4}[source]▶
6. RateMyPE ◴[21 Nov 24 10:04 UTC] No.42202714[source]▶
> How much does the entertainment system in your car cost vs an iPad? Is that a rip-off, or is it a niche, custom part that has to be made from automotive grade components?

You can't say it's a niche part when the item is being manufactured in the hundreds of thousands or even millions. Car companies reuse components between models and sometimes even between brands.

And that's without mentioning that the average 7-8" screen or CPU in a car's entertainment system isn't a custom made part, they are bought at bulk from other manufacturers that produce (tens of) millions of units per year.

You can find entertainment system replacements for most cars that cost a fraction of what the car manufacturer charges consumers.

I struggle to see how a mass-produced, way more expensive (for the customer), lower-quality product isn't simply a rip-off.

7. barbequeer ◴[21 Nov 24 10:27 UTC] No.42202838[source]▶
> How much does the soap dispenser cost in a 777 bathroom

This might not be a fair comparison, since Boeing also makes the ones for commercial customers, and probably overcharges them also.

> This one from CB2 is $40 and it doesn't conform to FAA rules and it's not MIL-SPEC.

People talk about MIL-SPEC like its some unattainable gold-standard. I can buy a MIL-SPEC rated Thinkpad from Lenovo for less than $600. I mean, sure, it doesn't dispense soap...

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8. _djo_ ◴[21 Nov 24 12:02 UTC] No.42203473[source]▶
MIL-SPEC is a very broad category. It just means it conforms to a military specification, which can be very simple and easy to meet in some cases. But when the MIL-SEC refers to safety-critical and flight-critical specifications it's a whole other story, and does become an extremely costly and difficult to meet set of standards for good reason.

Compare the cost of a MIL-SPEC ThinkPad with that of an actual flight control computer designed to be an integral part of an aircraft's avionics.

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9. barbequeer ◴[21 Nov 24 13:27 UTC] No.42204114{3}[source]▶
Yes, but this is for soap.
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10. _djo_ ◴[21 Nov 24 13:32 UTC] No.42204153{4}[source]▶
Sure, and there are useful points in the rest of this conversation about whether you need something that special for a soap dispenser and what might be driving up costs, and whether a commercial off the shelf alternative really was an option.

I wasn't trying to cover all that, I was just pointing out that MIL-SPEC is a very wide category and therefore effectively meaningless unless you're pointing out what type of application it is.