←back to thread

How Google spent 15 years creating a culture of concealment

(www.nytimes.com)
154 points tysone | 2 comments | 20 Nov 24 11:45 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
getpost ◴[20 Nov 24 23:05 UTC] No.42199072[source]▶
If anything you ever say during routine business operations can end up as evidence, clear and honest communication will suffer. The effectiveness of organizations, including the ability to act ethically, will be seriously degraded.

There needs to be some kind of work product doctrine, which protects the privacy of routine business communication. Defining that, while allowing the collection of evidence of criminal activity, won't be easy, but the current state of affairs is unworkable.

I don't wish to facilitate corporate crime, and it's obvious that some of Google's anti-competitive behavior is unlawful. But, I don't see any realistic alternative to what Google is doing in the current legal environment.

replies(12): >>42199118 #>>42199195 #>>42199223 #>>42199254 #>>42199476 #>>42199565 #>>42199605 #>>42199877 #>>42199883 #>>42200785 #>>42201087 #>>42201671 #
lancesells ◴[20 Nov 24 23:23 UTC] No.42199195[source]▶
> If anything you ever say during routine business operations can end up as evidence, clear and honest communication will suffer. The effectiveness of organizations, including the ability to act ethically, will be seriously degraded.

> There needs to be some kind of work product doctrine, which protects the privacy of routine business communication.

Wow. This is the opposite of how I feel. Mega-corporations should have their communications logged at a much higher level than a normal business. The things that have come out in court show how they manipulated their customers (advertisers). Regardless of how you feel about advertising a portion of those companies are small mom and pop shops trying to get by. If you have communications that can be used as evidence you're probably in the wrong.

replies(9): >>42199221 #>>42199265 #>>42199338 #>>42199371 #>>42199492 #>>42199507 #>>42199626 #>>42199700 #>>42200398 #
mattmaroon ◴[20 Nov 24 23:26 UTC] No.42199221[source]▶
“ If you have communications that can be used as evidence you're probably in the wrong.”

I’m surprised to see someone advocating for “if you haven’t done anything wrong you don’t have anything to hide” on HN. The cognitive dissonance must be in overdrive here!

replies(8): >>42199271 #>>42199295 #>>42199297 #>>42199309 #>>42199326 #>>42199508 #>>42199620 #>>42199794 #
kibwen ◴[20 Nov 24 23:35 UTC] No.42199295{3}[source]▶
No, please stop with this false equivalence. People get rights and benefit of the doubt. Corporations do not.
replies(5): >>42199328 #>>42199458 #>>42199587 #>>42199693 #>>42200419 #
1. scripturial ◴[21 Nov 24 00:10 UTC] No.42199587{4}[source]▶
The flaw that is limiting your thinking and understanding is companies don’t do things, only people can do things. Until you start seeing companies as a group of people, you can’t understand and predict how a “company” will act and behave. When a sales person is selling a product, it is a person who is acting, they may follow some policies, but another person made those policies. You need to expand your thinking into the individual people.
replies(1): >>42200496 #
2. mattmaroon ◴[21 Nov 24 02:32 UTC] No.42200496[source]▶
I use this all the time. People say “the government wants…” or “Republicans did…” (you can pretty much play this like mad libs) and I say “wait, the government is an organization comprised of people, who specifically wants that?” And then they say {insert other nebulous group here} and I point out the same thing.

And then either they give up out of frustration and think I’m dissembling or they start to think about the problem differently.