←back to thread

499 points perihelions | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
mitjam ◴[] No.42193017[source]
It was crossing right on time for the interruptions, a Russian officer was on board, it slowed down while crossing, no other ships were slowing down in that area during that time (rulingnout headwinds) - it cannot get much clearer. China is now participating in hybrid warfare against Europe (unless they present stronger evidence against this assumption)
replies(6): >>42193083 #>>42193168 #>>42193187 #>>42193273 #>>42194394 #>>42194583 #
greener_grass ◴[] No.42193187[source]
So if Trump is against China, and China aligns with Russia, will Trump then support Ukraine? Interesting (and choppy) times ahead.
replies(5): >>42193323 #>>42193482 #>>42194819 #>>42195620 #>>42196134 #
n4r9 ◴[] No.42193482[source]
Even if China doesn't explicitly align with Russia, I believe there are strategic reasons why the US would want a favourable outcome for Ukraine. I outlined a few points in a post a couple of weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42059787

I'm no international relations hawk though, so I'm keen to hear opposing viewpoints.

replies(2): >>42195213 #>>42196238 #
Dalewyn ◴[] No.42195213[source]
I used to support Ukraine winning the war at any cost (them losing and that result being recognized implies that warmongering is acceptable). However, that war is now in its third year with no end in sight.

Our (the west's) response to warmongering has been to trickle just enough resources and monies to keep Ukraine from losing but not so much that they win. The "donated" resources of course need to be replenished, the military industrial complex is quite literally making a killing.

At this point the question of declaring a firm stand against warmongering is lost. It's three years and going, warmongering as it turns out is fine. I hate that. My tax dollars are going towards endlessly and needlessly extending human suffering for the benefit of the military industrial complex. I hate that.

So I say, enough of this bullshit. Unless we suddenly send in so much support that Ukraine decisively wins very quickly, I don't want to see a single cent more of my tax dollars going towards this. My taxes are not blood money and the military industrial complex can go fuck themselves.

replies(6): >>42195454 #>>42195774 #>>42196039 #>>42196788 #>>42196811 #>>42196904 #
myrmidon ◴[] No.42196039[source]
I think classifying western aid to Ukraine as tax transfer to the military industrial complex is just incorrect. Because a lot of it does/did NOT need to be directly replenished for the donors-- instead the donations was more like getting rid of older stockpiles, and for some systems moving the modernization schedule up.

And I think the attitude "its pointless to try and keep helping against the Russians, people have suffered from them for so long anyway" is completeley beside the point (and dangerous!)-- the main gain from helping the Ukraine in my view is discouraging the kind of neo-imperialistm that led to this attack, and stopping the support just sends a signal to ambitious tyrants all over the world that you don't really care about them plundering their weaker neighbors (and with having the biggest military comes some kind of obligation in this regard in my view).

I also think that you are patronizing the Ukrainians themselves in the worst way-- if anyone should get to decide how long it is worth it to fight for their country, it should be them.

replies(2): >>42196629 #>>42197017 #
tmiku ◴[] No.42197017{3}[source]
> if anyone should get to decide how long it is worth it to fight for their country, it should be them.

Looks like the popular sentiment over there is shifting towards a negotiated peace with territorial concessions. https://www.newsweek.com/ukrainians-changing-their-minds-war...

replies(1): >>42197157 #
n4r9 ◴[] No.42197157{4}[source]
Are there other less partisan sources reporting this? From what I understand, Newsweek has been an alt-right mouthpiece since 2022.
replies(2): >>42197212 #>>42198528 #
1. tmiku ◴[] No.42198528{5}[source]
Yeesh, I wasn't aware that that happened at Newsweek. The Gallup link in the sibling comment is the best source, I had seen those results in a couple different places so I just grabbed one from the top of Google (wrongly assuming that remembering Newsweek being on my parents' coffee table 15 years ago is sufficient vetting). Thanks for keeping me honest!