Exploring the Cost and Feasibility of Battery-Electric Ships

Ferry service in the Puget Sound (Seattle Area) has suffered due to delays with electric ferries. The state refuses to maintain their existing fleet. Every line has frequent delays, and the international route which was suspended for “a couple years” in 2021 is now delayed until 2030.

The frustration people have with electric isn’t the technology – it’s the dogmatic commitment to technology that isn’t quite ready, based on false promises of it solving climate change .

I've traveled on a battery electric ship in Norway, quite a few years ago. It recharged while docked loading passengers using two high voltage high current cables slung from a crane.

It looks like that is a conversion and retrofit of ships that were already unmaintainable: https://washingtonstatestandard.com/briefs/conversion-of-was...

Modernizing all the control systems etc is the nightmare. The ferries were already electric- all ferries are; they have diesel engines driving generators which drive electric motors. They still have the exact same generators running the same motors. The batteries are installed and ready even though they won't be used until the port is electrified years from now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkgT9Z8Z2RU

this? https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/ele...

interesting they're struggling to get ship builders to bid.

Seems like a lesson learned is to build new boats until service is over capacity before refitting old boats where the unknown unknowns lurk.

Meanwhile Norway has 80 electric commuter ferries in service. https://businessnorway.com/articles/norway-showcases-award-w...

The Norwegian ferries appear to be much smaller than the Washington state ferries.

Here is the largest e-ferry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-ferry_Ellen

And a guide to the WA fleet: https://wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2021-10/WSF-FleetGu...

The frustration should be that in the US management is functionally incompetent.

Proposal: If we do it this way we won't have to spend as much money.

Counter: That's really hinky and it probably will blow up in our face.

Proposal: Yes but you can't prove it will. So it's what we're going to do.

Later: Blows up and goes over budget and takes two to three times longer.

Technology won't become ready without users unfortunately.

> Here is the largest e-ferry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-ferry_Ellen

Norway's largest e-ferry is three times larger. https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/02/worlds-largest-electric...

According to your link (and all other articles I found on that vessel), that ferry is capable of operating all-electric, but actually operating as a hybrid.

your point?

The Seattle ferries GP was talking are also retrofitted to be hybrid-electric, so that does seem very comparable

I was initially responding to a post stating that there were many all-electric ferries, and my point was that there were none (operational) of a size comparable to WA state ferries. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42197763

There are many large hybrid vessels; notably, this has been common for submarines for a very long time. The largest currently operational diesel-electric (hybrid) submarine seems to be the Chinese Qing-class, of ~3800 tons surfaced displacement.

you forgot the part where "Proposal" has been promoted twice based on a hurried launch and only "Counter" is left to take the blame for the messups.

I don't know what you mean by dogmatic. Alternatives to electric are still the primary workhorses in most industries, but falling prices for batteries mean they are rapidly becoming more competitive.

My experience is that people don't have a good grasp of how effective electric is, and think it's somehow worse than the alternatives and winning via subsidies, which is not really the case today. Likewise for things like solar.

I imagine many businesses are hoping to put off their next replacement cycles for more effective, cheaper technology rather than incur big Capex expenses on soon to be obsolete and more expensive technologies.

Although the news at that time was about delivery of a first electric ferry, that was 2021 and things change. The Ferry company's web site says now it has three electric ferries as a result of conversions and indeed they charge at both ends of the route. It's in Norwegian but the translation looks reasonable to me.

Sure but you have to think of the entire system which includes staff, training , charging infrastructure, power supply, possibly fuel for the charging infrastructure, backup/redundancy, maintenance, parts / distribution etc. An entire infrastructure network that had been operating for decades.

Diesel is more than just fuel, it’s an entire system.

I also heard the power companies just don't have the extra power to supply the ferries. The terminals need to be redesigned to receive and emit that much juice.

This sounds like a great way to keep consumer e-vehicles from hogging charger spots.