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Yi Peng 3 crossed both cables C-Lion 1 and BSC at times matching when they broke

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588 points perihelions | 5 comments | 20 Nov 24 06:56 UTC | HN request time: 1.048s | source
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mitjam ◴[20 Nov 24 11:52 UTC] No.42193017[source]▶
It was crossing right on time for the interruptions, a Russian officer was on board, it slowed down while crossing, no other ships were slowing down in that area during that time (rulingnout headwinds) - it cannot get much clearer. China is now participating in hybrid warfare against Europe (unless they present stronger evidence against this assumption)
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greener_grass ◴[20 Nov 24 12:13 UTC] No.42193187[source]▶
So if Trump is against China, and China aligns with Russia, will Trump then support Ukraine? Interesting (and choppy) times ahead.
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n4r9 ◴[20 Nov 24 12:50 UTC] No.42193482[source]▶
Even if China doesn't explicitly align with Russia, I believe there are strategic reasons why the US would want a favourable outcome for Ukraine. I outlined a few points in a post a couple of weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42059787

I'm no international relations hawk though, so I'm keen to hear opposing viewpoints.

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Dalewyn ◴[20 Nov 24 16:05 UTC] No.42195213[source]▶
I used to support Ukraine winning the war at any cost (them losing and that result being recognized implies that warmongering is acceptable). However, that war is now in its third year with no end in sight.

Our (the west's) response to warmongering has been to trickle just enough resources and monies to keep Ukraine from losing but not so much that they win. The "donated" resources of course need to be replenished, the military industrial complex is quite literally making a killing.

At this point the question of declaring a firm stand against warmongering is lost. It's three years and going, warmongering as it turns out is fine. I hate that. My tax dollars are going towards endlessly and needlessly extending human suffering for the benefit of the military industrial complex. I hate that.

So I say, enough of this bullshit. Unless we suddenly send in so much support that Ukraine decisively wins very quickly, I don't want to see a single cent more of my tax dollars going towards this. My taxes are not blood money and the military industrial complex can go fuck themselves.

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1. dagenleg ◴[20 Nov 24 18:33 UTC] No.42196811[source]▶
How can people keep repeating the russian talking point that equates helping Ukraine resist the invasion with "extending the suffering". Don't they know what kind of hell the occupied regions have become? One can't pretend not to understand that the ultimate russian goal is complete annexation and assimilation, which by the way will provide ample cannon fodder for the next war of conquest.

I can't take in good faith this whole "suffering" rhetorics -- not containing the imperialistic expansionist nuclear-armed empire is sure to bring more suffering to the world.

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2. Dalewyn ◴[20 Nov 24 18:41 UTC] No.42196871[source]▶
I think you're not understanding the whole argument: We're not helping Ukraine defend themselves, we're not containing the "imperialistic expansionist nuclear-armed empire". If we were then this war would have ended long ago and we wouldn't be having this conversation and Trump probably wouldn't have been elected.

No, I am angry because our response has been halfassed and lukewarm. We are keeping the war going with no end in sight, my tax dollars are being used explicitly to extend human suffering rather than end it. Sincerely fuck that noise. Either we go all in or do nothing at all, the current timeline is the worst one we could have possibly chosen.

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3. dagenleg ◴[20 Nov 24 22:53 UTC] No.42198991[source]▶
Yes, I'm definitely not following your argument. You're claiming that keeping the war going is extending the human suffering, while pushing Ukraine towards losing it would somehow end the suffering. That's false. Ukraine under russian occupation would be hell, and Ukrainians know it very well - that's why they are still fighting for survival.
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4. aguaviva ◴[21 Nov 24 03:12 UTC] No.42200731{4}[source]▶
If that is still hard for you to understand, ...

Howabout saying "If it helps, ..." instead.

5. dagenleg ◴[21 Nov 24 10:16 UTC] No.42202776{4}[source]▶
You are purposely ignoring the point I am making - the suffering WILL NOT end if the war ends. It will become much worse in fact. The only outcome of the aid stopping is the complete conquest of the country, one has to be completely blind or a shill to trust any treaty at this point.

I think the current anemic levels of support are insufficient, and the restrictions imposed on Ukraine in the name of "escalation management" are outright criminal, but even this level support is better than nothing. We are talking about war of extermination here.