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172 points yatrios | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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hinkley ◴[] No.42184326[source]
> Optimization strategies have shifted from simple power, performance, and area (PPA) metrics to system-level metrics, such as performance per watt. “If you go back into the 1990s, 2000s, the road map was very clear,”

Tell me you work for Intel without telling me you work for Intel.

> says Chris Auth, director of advanced technology programs at Intel Foundry.

Yeah that’s what I thought. The breathlessness of Intel figuring out things that everyone else figured out twenty years ago doesn’t bode well for their future recovery. They will continue to be the laughing stock of the industry if they can’t find more self reflection than this.

Whether this is their public facing or internal philosophy hardly matters. Over this sort of time frame most companies come to believe their own PR.

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talldayo ◴[] No.42184775[source]
Intel has had a few bad years, but frankly I feel like they could fall a lot lower. They aren't as down bad as AMD was during the Bulldozer years, or Apple during the PowerPC years, or even Samsung's early Exynos chipsets. The absolute worst thing they've done in the past 5 years was fab on TSMC silicon, which half the industry is guilty of at this point.

You can absolutely shoot your feet off trying to modernize too quickly. Intel will be the laughingstock if 18A never makes it to market and their CPU designs start losing in earnest to their competitors. But right now, in a relative sense, Intel isn't even down for the count.

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buildbot ◴[] No.42185024[source]
Intel has failed pretty badly IMO. Fabbing at TSMC might actually have been a good idea, except that every other component of arrow like is problematic. Huge tile to tile latencies, special chiplets that are not reusable in any other design, removal of hyperthreading, etc etc. Intel’s last gen CPU is in general faster than the new gen due to all the various issues.

And that’s just the current product! The last two gens are unreliable, quickly killing themselves with too high voltage and causing endless BSODs.

The culture and methods of ex-Intel people at the management level is telling as well, from my experiences at my last job at least.

(My opinions are my own, not my current employers & a lot of ex-Intel people are awesome!)

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talldayo ◴[] No.42185161[source]
We'll see, I mostly object to the "vultures circling" narrative that HN seems to be attached to. Intel's current position is not unprecedented, and people have been speculating Intel would have a rough catchup since the "14nm+++" memes were vogue. But they still have their fabs (and wisely spun it out to it's own business) and their chip designs, while pretty faulty, successfully brought x86 to the big.LITTLE core arrangement. They've beat AMD to the punch on a number of key technologies, and while I still think AMD has the better mobile hardware it still feels like the desktop stuff is a toss-up. Server stuff... glances at Gaudi and Xeon, then at Nvidia ...let's not talk about server stuff.

A lot of hopes and promises are riding on 18A being the savior for both Intel Foundry Services and the Intel chips wholesale. If we get official confirmation that it's been cancelled so Intel can focus on something else then it will signal the end of Intel as we know it.

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Tostino ◴[] No.42185623{3}[source]
I mean they were on 14 NM until just about 2022, those memes didn't come from nowhere. And it's not even that long ago.
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1. adrian_b ◴[] No.42194280{4}[source]
Their last 14 nm launch has been Rocket Lake, the desktop CPU of the year 2020/2021.

The next 3 years, 2021/2022, 2022/2023 and 2023/2024, have been dominated by "10 nm" rebranded as "Intel 7" products, which have used the Golden Cove/Raptor Cove and Gracemont CPU core micro-architectures.

Now their recent products are split between those made internally with the Intel 4/Intel 3 CMOS processes (which use rather obsolete CPU cores, which are very similar to the cores made with Intel 7, except that the new manufacturing process provides more cores per package and a lower power consumption per core) and those made at TSMC with up-to-date CPU cores, where the latter include all the higher end models for laptop and desktop CPUs (the cheapest models for the year 2024/2025 remain some rebranded older CPU models based on refreshes of Meteor Lake, Raptor Lake and Alder Lake N).