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473 points Bostonian | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.659s | source
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Crayfish3348 ◴[] No.42185914[source]
A book came out in August 2024 called "Soda Science: Making the World Safe for Coca-Cola," by Susan Greenhalgh. She's a professor (emeritus) at Harvard. The book is a history. It shows how the Coca-Cola Company turned to "science" when the company was beset by the obesity crisis of the 1990s and health advocates were calling for, among other things, soda taxes.

Coca-Cola "mobilized allies in academia to create a soda-defense science that would protect profits by advocating exercise, not dietary restraint, as the priority solution to obesity." It was a successful campaign and did particularly well in the Far East. "In China, this distorted science has left its mark not just on national obesity policies but on the apparatus for managing chronic disease generally."

Point being, the science that Coca-Cola propagated is entirely legitimate. But that science itself does not tell the whole, obvious truth, which is that there is certainly a correlation in a society between obesity rates and overall sugar-soda consumption rates. "Coke’s research isn’t fake science, Greenhalgh argues; it was real science, conducted by real and eminent scientists, but distorted by its aim."

"Trust the science" can thus be a dangerous call to arms. Here's the book, if anybody's interested. https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo221451...

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hn_throwaway_99 ◴[] No.42186814[source]
There are few slogans I hate more than "trust the science", primarily because it aligns scientific results with faith, which is exactly what science is not about. Science is fundamentally about skepticism, not trust.

Now, obviously that skepticism can be misused by some rando with no qualifications or even time spent researching telling you to be "skeptical" of people who have spent decades trying to figure shit out. What I really believe we should be teaching people is "what are the incentives?". That is, it's become very clear that many people are susceptible to provably false information, so we should train people to try to examine what incentives someone has for speaking out in the first place (and that includes scientists, too).

This is why I hate most conspiracy theories - even if you take everything the conspiracy supposes at face value, conspiracists don't explain how their conspiracy is somehow kept so secret when tons of people involved would have extremely strong incentives to expose it.

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tokinonagare[dead post] ◴[] No.42187022[source]
[flagged]
1. drewrv ◴[] No.42187707[source]
There is a virus lab in Wuhan because a lot of coronaviruses originate in that region. Its existence/location is not evidence of a lab leak.

If anything, the lab leak “theory” has received too much media attention when the primary evidence (location of a lab) is easily explained by other factors.

Imagine a virus was spread from penguins to humans. It would not be surprising if research on the virus were conducted in Antarctica!

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2. jounker ◴[] No.42188786[source]
Coronaviruses are a big family of viruses.

The particular viruses they were working with were only distantly related to covid. Related in the same way that house cats are related to tigers.

In addition they were not doing “gain of function research”, unless you want to say that they were also doing “loss of function research”. What they were doing was seeing how point mutation affected infectivity both positively and negatively.

We know what they were working with, and it wasn’t the virus that gave rise to covid. There are much closer matches than in other species.

3. TeaBrain ◴[] No.42189776[source]
The idea that the lab was in Wuhan due to the prevalence of bat coronaviruses in the region was one of the most frequent, yet almost universally unreferenced claims, that was made to explain away why the virus coincidentally showed up first in the same city as the lab. Hubei, where Wuhan is located, is not a central hot spot of bat coronaviruses in China. The available information points toward bat coronaviruses being much more common in the Southern provinces of Yunnan, Guizhou and in particular Guangdong. This can be seen in Figure 1 ("Geographical distribution of bat coronaviruses") in the below referenced Chinese study on bat coronaviruses from 2019, published by members of the Wuhan Institute of Virology less than a year before the sars-cov-2 outbreak.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6466186/

4. tripletao ◴[] No.42190918[source]
Do you know where you got this idea? It's completely wrong and incredibly prevalent; so I'm wondering if particular sources are misleading people, or if it just "feels right" and people come to it independently unprompted.

Beyond the general background already linked, Dr. Shi specifically did not expect that natural spillover of SARS-CoV-2 occurred near Wuhan:

> We have done bat virus surveillance in Hubei Province for many years, but have not found that bats in Wuhan or even the wider Hubei Province carry any coronaviruses that are closely related to SARS-CoV-2. I don't think the spillover from bats to humans occurred in Wuhan or in Hubei Province.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210727042832/https://www.scien...

She could be wrong, but the idea that she chose her work location based on the natural abundance of sarbecoviruses is unequivocally false.