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399 points seanhunter | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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NameError ◴[] No.42184405[source]
Easy way to get a fair result from an unfair coin toss: Flip the coin twice in a row, in this case starting with the same side facing up both times, so it's equally unfair for both tosses. If you get heads-heads or tails-tails, discard and start over until you get either heads-tails or tails-heads, which have equal probabilities (so you can say something like HT = "heads" and TH = "tails").

This works even if the coin lands heads 99% of the time, as long as it's consistent (but you'll probably have to flip a bunch of times in that case).

replies(6): >>42184523 #>>42184538 #>>42184568 #>>42184577 #>>42185040 #>>42187238 #
ant6n ◴[] No.42184568[source]
What if consecutive unfair coin flips are not independent?
replies(1): >>42184717 #
1. FartyMcFarter ◴[] No.42184717[source]
Then it's impossible to trust the coin in the general case.

Proof: Imagine the extreme case of the coin containing AI that knows exactly how you use it and how to manipulate each toss result. The coin itself can decide the outcome of your procedure, so it's impossible to trust it to generate randomness.

replies(1): >>42184848 #
2. lisper ◴[] No.42184848[source]
It's also impossible to prove that a given coin is not being controlled by an AI. (Or a deity.)
replies(1): >>42184925 #
3. FartyMcFarter ◴[] No.42184925[source]
Yes, which is why you can only trust abstract coins that exist in a formal system which assumes independent tosses :)

If you require true randomness without any assumptions this is not the universe for you.

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4. jjk166 ◴[] No.42185490{3}[source]
Just perform the same coin toss in two universes.