←back to thread

Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

(www.cnn.com)
591 points mooreds | 6 comments | 18 Nov 24 14:31 UTC | HN request time: 0.84s | source | bottom
Show context
staplung ◴[18 Nov 24 20:22 UTC] No.42176496[source]▶
It's worth mentioning that cable breakages happen quite often; globally about 200 times per year [1] and the article itself mentions that just last year, two other cables and a gas pipeline were taken out by an anchor. The Gulf of Finland is evidently quite shallow. From what I understand, cable repair ships are likely to use ROVs for parts of repair jobs but only when the water is shallow so hopefully they can figure out whether the damage looks like sabotage before they sever the cable to repair it. Of course, if you're a bad actor and want plausible deniability, maybe you'd make it look like anchor damage or, deliberately drag an anchor right over the cables.

Cable repairs are certainly annoying and for the operator of the cable, expensive. However, they are usually repaired relatively quickly. I'd be more worried if many more cables were severed at the same time. If you're only going to break one or two a year, you might as well not bother.

1: https://www.theverge.com/c/24070570/internet-cables-undersea...

replies(11): >>42177868 #>>42178949 #>>42179789 #>>42181124 #>>42181825 #>>42182141 #>>42182166 #>>42182377 #>>42183002 #>>42184314 #>>42187800 #
belter ◴[19 Nov 24 11:42 UTC] No.42182377[source]▶
"Germany’s defense minister says damage to 2 Baltic data cables appears to be sabotage" - https://apnews.com/article/germany-finland-baltic-data-cable...
replies(3): >>42183619 #>>42185086 #>>42186558 #
Cthulhu_ ◴[19 Nov 24 14:12 UTC] No.42183619[source]▶
English isn't my first language, but isn't "appears to be" inconclusive? It is or it isn't, "appears to be" is still too vague for my liking.
replies(7): >>42183738 #>>42184776 #>>42185179 #>>42187397 #>>42187808 #>>42188196 #>>42197288 #
1. beezlebroxxxxxx ◴[19 Nov 24 14:24 UTC] No.42183738[source]▶
"Appears to be", in English, generally means "on first look/glance." It runs very close to "I believe such and such."

If I asked you for an answer to a math question, then you showed me the answer with how you got there, on a very quick glance I might say: "That appears to be correct."

It could mean they've seen more evidence to make that assessment, or are basing that assessment on the same evidence we have. Regardless, "appears to be" is hedging in the absence of certainty.

replies(3): >>42186312 #>>42186535 #>>42187756 #
2. mettamage ◴[19 Nov 24 17:56 UTC] No.42186312[source]▶
I love this about HN culture. HN culture, in general, feels really patient, empathic and knowledgeable :)
3. pdabbadabba ◴[19 Nov 24 18:18 UTC] No.42186535[source]▶
This is right. But I'd add that the fact that the speaker is the German defense minister adds an additional layer of meaning. Ordinarily such a person would not be expected to give such an initial assessment without careful consideration.
replies(1): >>42187127 #
4. holowoodman ◴[19 Nov 24 19:26 UTC] No.42187127[source]▶
Correct. To add context from a German source (https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/ostsee-datenkabel-p...):

> Bundesverteidigungsminister Boris Pistorius vermutet im Fall von zwei in der Ostsee beschädigten Kabeln zur Datenübertragung eine vorsätzliche Aktion durch Dritte. Man müsse davon ausgehen, dass es sich um Sabotage handle, sagte er am Rande eines Treffens mit seinen EU-Amtskollegen in Brüssel. Beweise dafür gebe es bislang aber nicht. Er betonte: "Niemand glaubt, dass diese Kabel aus Versehen durchtrennt worden sind."

> Federal Minister of Defense Boris Pistorius assumes the case of to damaged baltic sea data cables to be the intentional action of a third party. One should assume it to be sabotage, he said while at a meeting with EU colleagues in Brusseles. Proof, however, is not available yet. He emphasized: "Nobody believes that those cables were cut by accident."

So while carefully not saying anything definitive and firm, he very strongly hints in the direction of sabotage.

5. ThinkBeat ◴[19 Nov 24 20:28 UTC] No.42187756[source]▶
In a political and intelligence sense "appears to be" is a rhetorical tool for propaganda purposes, or / and to cover you ass. He could say "We have no evidence of this being sabotage and further speculation is not useful at this point” which is what he says, from one perspective.

On the other he is framing a conspiracy theory: "Something happened that appears to be sabotage and sabotage would be done by the enemy. " and the European media has been stuffed full of conspiracy theories during the entire conflicts.

Educationally you can look at the Nord Stream pipelines sabotage.

Nearly every EU and US source writes in big letters that Russia was behind it. After a while, it became nearly impossible to keep that conspiracy theory alive.

Sweden and Denmark ended their investigation into the matter with no conclusion drawn The present narrative is that the sabotage was done by a Ukrainian team with a shoe string budget:

A Drunken Evening, a Rented Yacht: The Real Story of the Nord Stream Pipeline Sabotage Private businessmen funded the shoestring operation, which was overseen by a top general; President Zelensky approved the plan, then tried unsuccessfully to call it off https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/nord-stream-pipeline-explos...

replies(2): >>42187880 #>>42188616 #
6. petre ◴[19 Nov 24 22:06 UTC] No.42188616[source]▶
I've read the original Zeit article. What a bunch of mumbo jumbo.

https://www.zeit.de/politik/2023-09/nord-stream-pipelines-at...