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577 points mooreds | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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leshokunin ◴[] No.42176328[source]
The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with.

We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

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meiraleal[dead post] ◴[] No.42176516[source]
[flagged]
polotics ◴[] No.42176765[source]
Nato is a defensive alliance against any offensive act. Russia, ...as in: the mafia of the few profiteering rulers currently at the helm, is not fighting back anything. Firstly, its mad Ukrainian adventure has meant it has made its border very defence-free on its border with Nato countries. Secondly, it is constantly attacking in hybrid warfare mode, paying local lowlife to do propaganda graffiti and sabotage. The appropriate response is to hold all responsible individuals accountable. Eventually the lower ranks will understand that playing along to Old-man-putin's tune of death won't bring them closer to anything but grief.
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valval ◴[] No.42178741[source]
Are you seriously telling me that the opposing side would care about what an alliance calls themselves? Hitler could call the axis powers a defensive allience and it wouldn’t make it so. Cmon, this is basic reasoning that most 10 year olds would grasp.

NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors.

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aguaviva ◴[] No.42179452[source]
NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors.

A careful examination of the list below suggests that, in terms of your choice of the words "dozen" and "aggressor", the way they are usually meant in English -- you're definitely stretching things, here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations

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valval ◴[] No.42181085{3}[source]
I know what I said, and I was careful with my words.

We have this thing going on in the west where we are the good guys, and every war we start is an anti-terrorist operation. For Russia, the term just now was “special military operation”.

It’s hilarious when you realise how the world works. Controlling words means controlling minds. We’ve grown quite good at it.

We went to Korea and took any of our allies who wanted to fight with us. We were already NATO then. Then we went to Vietnam. Then we meddled with some civil wars here and there. Did some “interventions” and took our NATO allies with us each time. Then we started proper pummelling the Middle East.

To our adversaries, every single bullet that is shot by a NATO country is a NATO operation. It doesn’t take a full scale mobilisation, and it doesn’t matter what we call it internally. NATO is a military alliance, and our militaries are NATO’s militaries.

Of course each time it was communists or terrorists we were killing so it doesn’t matter, right? It’s like these things happen in a vacuum and aren’t a result of our intrusive foreign policy. We don’t ever speak of the events leading up to 9/11. Crazy terrorists doing their thing, savages that they are? For some reason the Ukrainian neo-nazis killing people in Donbas aren’t that, though. Wrong side of history, I guess.

And to be fair, I’m no pacifist. What I detest is trying to change the cold realities of life and making them seem like something they are not.

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1. aguaviva ◴[] No.42181735{4}[source]
I know what I said, and I was careful with my words.

Except your number is way off, and has no connection to reality.

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2. valval ◴[] No.42182664[source]
Well, the number of wars and conflicts that the US, UK, France, Germany, or Italy (de facto NATO) have been part of unnecessarily since 1949 is above 12 (a dozen), but then again dozen isn't a rigorous quantifier, and I was careful not to use a precise number since I knew it was somewhere between 10 and 15 but couldn't be bothered counting for my message.
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3. aguaviva ◴[] No.42185360[source]
No, every conflict the US has been involved in is not "de facto NATO".
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4. valval ◴[] No.42193048{3}[source]
To you, no. To our adversaries, yes.
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5. aguaviva ◴[] No.42196380{4}[source]
Not to them, either.

That's just your projection.

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6. meiraleal ◴[] No.42203161{5}[source]
As if any westerner spare a thought about what their "enemies" (read "low level stupid barbarians") think. You are terribly uninformed.