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    Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

    (www.cnn.com)
    577 points mooreds | 29 comments | 18 Nov 24 14:31 UTC | HN request time: 1.47s | source | bottom
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    staplung ◴[18 Nov 24 20:22 UTC] No.42176496[source]▶
    It's worth mentioning that cable breakages happen quite often; globally about 200 times per year [1] and the article itself mentions that just last year, two other cables and a gas pipeline were taken out by an anchor. The Gulf of Finland is evidently quite shallow. From what I understand, cable repair ships are likely to use ROVs for parts of repair jobs but only when the water is shallow so hopefully they can figure out whether the damage looks like sabotage before they sever the cable to repair it. Of course, if you're a bad actor and want plausible deniability, maybe you'd make it look like anchor damage or, deliberately drag an anchor right over the cables.

    Cable repairs are certainly annoying and for the operator of the cable, expensive. However, they are usually repaired relatively quickly. I'd be more worried if many more cables were severed at the same time. If you're only going to break one or two a year, you might as well not bother.

    1: https://www.theverge.com/c/24070570/internet-cables-undersea...

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    Etheryte ◴[18 Nov 24 22:38 UTC] No.42177868[source]▶
    This is a misleading framing. The two cables last year were not taken out by an anchor as an accident, it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable. In other words, sabotage. There's no point in trying to color any of this with rose tinted glasses when it's clear who's done it and why.
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    Aloisius ◴[19 Nov 24 02:41 UTC] No.42179627[source]▶
    > it was literally a ship putting down its anchor just before the cable and then dragging it over the cable

    I don't understand. That's how I'd expect most accidents to happen. Someone decides to anchor too close to an undersea cable, the anchor fails to hold and the drifting ship drags the anchor over the cable damaging it.

    I'm not saying it wasn't sabotage, but there needs to be something a bit more than that.

    Source: have dragged anchors - thankfully never near undersea cables

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    1. Maxion ◴[19 Nov 24 06:24 UTC] No.42180538[source]▶
    The case last year with the gas pipeline, the Chinese / Russian owned left Kaliningrad, and then while sailing, dropped its anchor before the pipeline and cable, and then dragged it over them, and then raised it. It was apparently accidental, yet both the Chinese and Russians didn't want the crew interviewed, the Estonian and the Finnish authorities both shrugged and didn't really care, and the Estonian energy prices were severly impacted for ~9 months.

    IMO very very likely sabotage, and brushed under the rug in fear of Russian escalation.

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    2. card_zero ◴[19 Nov 24 07:36 UTC] No.42180869[source]▶
    * The Chinese / Russian owned what left Kaliningrad?

    * Which pipeline?

    * Last year (2023), not 2022?

    replies(2): >>42180998 #>>42181077 #
    3. smcl ◴[19 Nov 24 08:06 UTC] No.42180998[source]▶
    There are very few things which can be described as “setting sail” and can “drop anchor” so I think you can fill the gap easily
    replies(1): >>42181055 #
    4. jpc0 ◴[19 Nov 24 08:16 UTC] No.42181055{3}[source]▶
    Of the big metal things that can "set sail" and "drop anchor" there happens to be a very large set of classifications...

    But using your heuristics, that catamarang crew should probably have been interviewed.

    replies(1): >>42182834 #
    5. kookamamie ◴[19 Nov 24 08:19 UTC] No.42181077[source]▶
    A ship. The ship is named Newnew Polar Bear.
    replies(1): >>42181221 #
    6. ninjin ◴[19 Nov 24 08:40 UTC] No.42181221{3}[source]▶
    Reference for those of us unfamiliar with the incident:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newnew_Polar_Bear#Damage_to_un...

    replies(2): >>42181737 #>>42182175 #
    7. card_zero ◴[19 Nov 24 10:00 UTC] No.42181737{4}[source]▶
    Thank you! Had heard nothing about this one.
    8. theshrike79 ◴[19 Nov 24 10:12 UTC] No.42181823[source]▶
    The Finnish authorities know exactly who did it, but what are they going to do?

    Sanction Russia? Fire a few missiles at Moscow? Write a sternly worded letter?

    It's just added to the pile of "shit that Russia does without repercussions" which is opened when (not if) they actually cross the border to Finland and find out what happens when you fuck around with a country who's been preparing for Russian invasion for 100 years.

    replies(1): >>42182003 #
    9. jajko ◴[19 Nov 24 10:36 UTC] No.42181970{3}[source]▶
    again (we in the eastern part have very fond memories of russian oppression and enslavement of whole eastern block, shooting people on the streets and on the borders for the heinous crime of wanting to escape that communist paradise... thats why baltics, Finland or Poland have rather strong military, while slovakia and hungary have highly corrupt governments that only fear what democracy brings so they lean east for protection)
    10. lovegrenoble ◴[19 Nov 24 10:42 UTC] No.42182002[source]▶
    Highly likely ))
    11. stoperaticless ◴[19 Nov 24 10:42 UTC] No.42182003[source]▶
    Action does not need to be immediate.

    Plan is clear: continue suppporting Ukraine, continue Russian isolation.

    12. pelasaco ◴[19 Nov 24 11:07 UTC] No.42182175{4}[source]▶
    "In August 2024, an internal Chinese investigation indicated that the ship was indeed responsible for the damage, claiming it was an accident due to heavy weather rather than intentional sabotage.[23][24]"

    The internal Chinese investigation indicated that was an accident.. LOL

    replies(1): >>42195712 #
    13. benterix ◴[19 Nov 24 11:24 UTC] No.42182265[source]▶
    > IMO very very likely sabotage, and brushed under the rug in fear of Russian escalation.

    But what can they do? Imagine you are the leader of a small European country like the Netherlands, and one day Russia decides to shot down your passenger plane with 300 people on board. You can do absolutely nothing.

    But once a proxy war started, of course the Netherlands are doing their best to make Putin pay for the lives of these innocent people. He basically alienated many countries in this way and then complains of "Russophobia".

    replies(2): >>42186711 #>>42191719 #
    14. FrustratedMonky ◴[19 Nov 24 12:06 UTC] No.42182546[source]▶
    "Estonian and the Finnish authorities both shrugged and didn't really care"

    Is this true?

    Or

    Are we now in a world where we are all living in fear of actual military retribution for speaking out?

    replies(1): >>42183158 #
    15. smcl ◴[19 Nov 24 12:46 UTC] No.42182834{4}[source]▶
    I think you tried to be a bit too clever there in choosing one of the "big metal things" that you didn't know how to spell :-)
    replies(1): >>42188917 #
    16. coretx ◴[19 Nov 24 13:25 UTC] No.42183158[source]▶
    NATO countries don't or barely respond because subversion requires a response. Russia is constantly pulling low hanging fruit hoping for as much commotion, fear, etc. It's party of their destabilization and subversion tactics. This is why authorities are not loud, but calm & stoic. And it works, very few people around me are aware of the fact that Russia has blown up NATO ammunition depots, liquidated politicians and has spread bombs on mail flights. During WW2 the British had a great slogan: /Keep Calm and Carry On/. It actually helps the war effort, unlike public outcry, wild speculation & unrest.
    replies(2): >>42185612 #>>42185832 #
    17. chikere232 ◴[19 Nov 24 14:28 UTC] No.42183787{4}[source]▶
    Not wanting to be invaded isn't warmongering, except in the eyes of the invader
    18. alt227 ◴[19 Nov 24 17:01 UTC] No.42185612{3}[source]▶
    > Russia has blown up NATO ammunition depots

    Can you give a link to some information on this please?

    replies(1): >>42186090 #
    19. holoduke ◴[19 Nov 24 17:17 UTC] No.42185832{3}[source]▶
    For the non westerns the west is constantly bribing and threatening other nations to comply with their economic expansion drift. In the end we are all tribal nations. And even the west isntva tiny bit better than others. Unfortunately propoganda at all sides make people sticking to one side, condemning the other.
    replies(1): >>42187160 #
    20. actionfromafar ◴[19 Nov 24 17:38 UTC] No.42186090{4}[source]▶
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_...
    21. m4rtink ◴[19 Nov 24 18:37 UTC] No.42186711[source]▶
    Yep, they can and they did:

    https://english.defensie.nl/downloads/publications/2024/09/2...

    Or the Netherlands section here:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukra...

    350+ APCs, 150+ MBTs, Patriot bateries, SPGs, F16s - I'm sure those on the receiving end do think that their Donbas proxies could have been a bit less trigger happy when the loaned them that Buk AA system back in 2014.

    Those 298 inoccent victims, 193 of them citizens of Netherlands will be avenged many times over.

    22. holoduke ◴[19 Nov 24 20:20 UTC] No.42187670{5}[source]▶
    I guess its time for some lessons of the history of Finland. Remind you of the collaboration with Nazi Germany. Also the forced removal of half a million people in Karelia. Treatment of native Sami people. discrimination and murder of many of those. Nothing different than any other country. Don't fool yourself in thinking you belong to the good guys. Its the concequence of propaganda.
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    23. ajuc ◴[19 Nov 24 21:18 UTC] No.42188185{6}[source]▶
    > Remind you of the collaboration with Nazi Germany.

    Let me quote Wikipedia:

    After invading Poland, the Soviet Union sent ultimatums to the Baltic countries, where it demanded military bases on their soil. The Baltic states accepted Soviet demands, and lost their independence in the summer of 1940. In October 1939, the Soviet Union sent a similar request to Finland, but the Finns refused these demands. [1]

    At that point Finland was neutral, but Soviet Union had a treaty with Nazi Germany and invaded Poland together (and also split the whole Eastern Europe between themselves in secret protocol of Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. See [2]

    After the ultimatum Finland refused, Soviet Russia invaded, got repelled, and only THEN Finland allied with Nazi Germany.

    > Nothing different than any other country.

    One country invaded other. The other country defended itself. These are objectively not alike. Stop repeating russian propaganda. There is objective truth and it's not that hard to know it. People who try to make it fuzzy do it because they know it's not painting them in a good light.

    Remember how Russia was pretending situation in Ukraine in 2014 is "complicated", and Ukrainians are "nazis" and these "green men" are just Ukrainian separatists, and westerners can't really know what's going on. They also pushed "both sides are bad, let's just ignore it" - and it worked back then. Thousands of people died because of useful idiots believing these lies. Nowadays Russia openly admits it was their army pretending to be Ukrainians.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Finland#Finland_in_...

    [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...

    24. fsloth ◴[19 Nov 24 21:32 UTC] No.42188317{6}[source]▶
    Russian propaganda is all about claiming nobody has any values, and using hand picked historical errors and misattribution evidence of this. The intent is to sow doubt.

    I see you are repeating the favourite tropes while avoiding the point - a colonizer attempting to strike down again at an old victim.

    The point is not about not making mistakes. Everybody does those. They key thing about being among the good guys is a) recognizing those mistakes and b) not intentionally repeating them. Also not treating your own citizens as worthless pieces of flesh to throw in to the meatgrinder is a clear ”good guy bad guy” indicator if we want to use low brow moral qualifiers.

    I guess you conveniently forgot to mention that Finland joined Germany only because Stalin was about to roll over Finland and nobody else was willing to oppose the invasion. The key thing what displays the character of Finland as country, is that Finland never let Germany take our jewish population. The only thing that made Germany truly evil was the holocaust. Finland did not participate in the holocaust. Jewish men served in the Finnish armed forces. When Germans wanted to implement their holocaust in Finland, the finns said basically ”piss off”.

    You are quite right on the historical treatment of Sami. You forget to mention that Sami rights as a minority are now quite well protected, and we feel quite bad of this historical ill trearment.

    This is in contrast with Russian values, for example, where the state not only refuses to admit the historical mistakes made, genocide, but happily sends hundreds of thousands of men to a pointless meat grinder. This is what true evil looks like. One needs to be a very special kind of fool not to see state institutions clearly being ”better” or ”worse” and Russia being of the very worst kind. The propaganda attempt you posted tries to argue in an off-hand manner that Russia can’t be the worst since all are equally bad. The claim is false. There is a clear gradient of human quality in state institutions and the Russian state is objectively at the worse end of the spectrum, and sliding ever lower sadly.

    25. jpc0 ◴[19 Nov 24 22:48 UTC] No.42188917{5}[source]▶
    Generally misspellings like this kind of proves the point...

    The comment means nothing, neither mine nor the one I commented on so I won't even bother looking up the spelling.

    It's more important to understand why the comment is there.

    The GP asked what boat, parent effectively said "a boat" which doesn't answer the question. My comment was one of the least likely options, but hey I could have said sailboat...

    Not an excuse either but realistically I on a daily basis speak two languages and often interact with people who can barely speak one of those two so I have some basic understanding of a third... Sometimes I can't remember which one spelling rules come from. Not an excuse, it's easy enough to look it up but just context.

    26. InDubioProRubio ◴[20 Nov 24 08:05 UTC] No.42191719[source]▶
    What goes around comes around - the irony being that russia itself- has very little regarding hightech structure that could be sabotaged.

    No russian starlink sats. No russian fiber lines. No anything. Just backwater countries, slowly bled dry to have that heap of loot called moscow polished.

    The heap of pillaged academics with nowhere to go has wandered off towards the west.

    All there is, is vandalism and downfall while high on nostalgia. The aggressive train station HasBeenHobo of international politics.

    27. sandos ◴[20 Nov 24 13:24 UTC] No.42193740[source]▶
    Russia wants the West to react, to stop funding Ukraine and instead fund.. protection for their own homelands I guess. This is a known (theory?), and the game theoretic way to then respond is to, ignore that it happens. Dont stoke any fear or reaction from people or government.
    28. DiggyJohnson ◴[20 Nov 24 16:43 UTC] No.42195712{5}[source]▶
    Dropping anchor in a channel is something a container ship (especially one without other mitigations like this Newnew, I mean look at it) might do to increase stability and reduce the risk of drifting out of the channel.

    I don't care to convince folks in this thread one way or another, but yes, there are reason a commercial ship would drop anchor while underway, including bad weather and a narrow / shallow channel. The circumstances from last year had both.

    29. dang ◴[20 Nov 24 21:51 UTC] No.42198488{6}[source]▶
    You can't post slurs against populations here.

    We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking HN's guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop.

    https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html