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473 points Bostonian | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0.872s | source | bottom
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refurb ◴[] No.42178748[source]
Yikes, quite the scathing article and example of a the politicization of science.

“Trust the science” has always bothered me for two reasons: 1) science is frequently not black and white and anyone who has done hard science research knows there are plenty of competing opinions among scientists and 2) while scientific facts are facts, we still need to decide on how to act on those facts and that decision making process is most certainly political and subjective in nature.

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rayiner ◴[] No.42178829[source]
The second point is critical. Relevant testimony from the former head of the NIH during the pandemic, Francis Collins: https://www.bladenjournal.com/opinion/72679/confession-of-a-...

> “If you’re a public-health person and you’re trying to make a decision, you have this very narrow view of what the right decision is.” “So you attach infinite value to stopping the disease and saving a life. You attach zero value to whether this actually totally disrupts people’s lives, ruins the economy, and has many kids kept out of school in a way that they never quite recover from.”

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lmm ◴[] No.42178944[source]
While I agree with the fundamental point, I find that a kind of ironic choice of examples. I wonder what kind of person attaches so much value to keeping kids in school whether it's good for them or not.
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rayiner ◴[] No.42179623[source]
It was well established before COVID that missing in-school days has a major adverse effect on learning. Keeping kids out of school had exactly the predicted effect—reading and math scores fell significantly: https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/news/24/01/despite-progres....

We also knew early on that COVID posed little risk to kids themselves. So it was entirely rational for parents, especially of young children, to value keeping those kids in school over the negligible health risks (to the kids) of COVID exposure.

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1. lmm ◴[] No.42179879[source]
Fewer days in school reducing test scores is very much expected. Going from that to claiming an adverse effect on learning, much less an overall harm, is quite a leap.
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2. rayiner ◴[] No.42179996[source]
Test scores accurately measure learning. That’s one of the most robustly supported facts in all of education, and something virtually nobody in Asia or Europe disagrees with.
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3. davorak ◴[] No.42180537[source]
> Test scores accurately measure learning.

I think you claim to much here. Or are using odd definitions, to me at least.

Sure you can extract something about what has been learned with properly made tests administered correctly. It is the tool that is used because it is the tool we have, not because it 'measures learning' in all the ways we want to measure.

4. stefan_ ◴[] No.42183349[source]
Which is why reorganizing all school systems around teaching the standardized test and judging teachers by these results has been such an overwhelming success that "virtually nobody [..] disagrees with".
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5. umanwizard ◴[] No.42183938{3}[source]
The US has probably the least test-focused education system in the developed world (you don’t need to take any exam to graduate high school except in some cases an extremely easy one as a formality). Would you claim the US education system is better than the UK, France or Germany?
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6. lmm ◴[] No.42184451{4}[source]
The fact that we even have year-by-year, grade-by-grade test figures for the US implies it's significantly more test-focused than the UK, where those tests simply don't exist for most grades.
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7. umanwizard ◴[] No.42185601{5}[source]
Whether you get any qualification at all in the UK is entirely determined by high-stakes standardized tests, at least on the main academic track (GCSE and A levels)
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8. mrguyorama ◴[] No.42185746{4}[source]
There is no "US" education system in reality. There is a "Maine" education system, and a "Colorado" education system, and a "Florida" education system.

They have wildly different rules, designs, systems, and results.

9. willy_k ◴[] No.42186310{5}[source]
Are you talking about finals or standardized tests? Because from my experience at least, the latter has minimal impact on the track that kids follow (could put on you advanced math or reading track but there is opportunity for mobility regardless) and only the SAT/ACT (highest score of however many times on chooses to take them) is used to determine where someone can go to college. But test scores (even MCAT/LSAT) will never determine what someone can study, just where, which is not the case in the UK per my understanding.
10. lmm ◴[] No.42189532{6}[source]
Sure. But students have very little influence on the system. How test-focused a schooling system is isn't going to depend on how much test results affect the students, it's going to depend on how much test results affect the teachers and especially the administrators.
11. MisterTea ◴[] No.42193786{4}[source]
> The US has probably the least test-focused education system in the developed world

And there I was, in American schools being told test scores were 80% of my grade with homework accounting for 10% and class projects another 10%. Both high school and university. Fucking liars.

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12. umanwizard ◴[] No.42198388{5}[source]
Presumably random exams made up by your teachers, not nationwide or statewide standardized tests, though.