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355 points jchanimal | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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uoaei ◴[] No.42158729[source]
I follow the lead author, Stacy McGaugh, via his blog where he posts discussions and musings about the latest research into the dark matter vs MOND debate: https://tritonstation.com/new-blog-page/

His arguments are very convincing and relatively clear. I am not an astrophysicist but I have two degrees in physics and have always found the dark matter theory to be lacking -- in absence of any evidence of causation whatsoever, dark matter can only be described trivially as "where we would put matter if we could to make our theory of gravity make sense," which is totally backwards from a basic scientific perspective.

Predictions based on modern MOND postulates are shown to be more and more accurate as our observational instruments continue to improve in sensitivity.

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griffzhowl ◴[] No.42158981[source]
> which is totally backwards from a basic scientific perspective

This is not right, because if we have a situation where our theories and observations don't cohere, it's not given whether the theory requires modification or we're missing something in our observations (or both). A classical illustration is the orbit of Uranus being observed in the nineteenth century to be contrary to the predictions of Newtonian theory. Calculations were made assuming the truth of the Newtonian theory and that we were missing something in our observations - the position of Neptune was predicted and it was subsequently discovered.

On the other hand, the orbit of Mercury diverged from the prediction of Newton's theory. Again, a previously unobserved planet closer to the sun was postulated as being responsible, but in this case it really did require a modification to the theory of gravity: general relativity, which accurately predicted the 43 arcseconds per century of perihelion precession by which Mercury's orbit diverges from Newtonian predicitions.

GR has obviously made many other predictions, such as the gravitational bending of light, black holes, and gravitational waves, which have been vindicated.

So there's obviously a problem of the theory and observations not cohering, but whether the solution is a modification of the theory or a new form of matter is not clear in advance, and the latter is not unreasonable and certainly it's not unscientific to make as a hypothesis, to see where it leads.

The difficulty is in coming up with a theoretical framework that retains all the successful predictions of GR while also accounting for the galactic rotation curves.

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njtransit ◴[] No.42159171[source]
One difference between dark matter and Neptune is that the existence of Neptune is falsifiable. The formulation of dark matter inherently is not. Falsifiable hypotheses is the cornerstone of science.
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griffzhowl ◴[] No.42160476[source]
I'm not sure it's inherently unfalsifiable. There are some specific proposals for dark matter that could be ruled out by experiments, such as right-handed neutrinos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterile_neutrino#Sterile_neutr...

Maybe if you're being very broad in definitions then some class of proposals describable as "dark matter" might be unfalsifiable, but to be taken seriously as a scientific proposal I think it should be specific, concrete, and indeed testable, and there are a few of these within the "dark matter" class.

Again, we're in the perhaps unsatisfying position of having observations which don't cohere with our current theoretical understanding. What's the solution? It's not easy...

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uoaei ◴[] No.42160605[source]
Have you ever encountered the phrase "grasping at straws"? The pursuit of explaining dark matter has gone through many waves of "we just need to invent detectors for this particle that has never been observed" and is littered with the wreckage.
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griffzhowl ◴[] No.42171991[source]
Most of the history of physics involves making detectors for things that weren't previously observed... Consider: either most researchers in the field are stupid, for still pursuing an idea which you've apparently ruled out by simple reasoning, or your simple reasoning is fallacious
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1. uoaei ◴[] No.42176550[source]
Almost: most of the history of physics is based on detectors being sensitive to things people didn't even know existed. Fits and starts based on happy accidents. The teleology of scientific progress is a myth. The most famous example is of course the Galilean moons.

Proposing detectors for particles that no one is even sure can exist is like setting up traps for Bigfoot...